Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster • Hacker News Board

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#21

Post by baybal2 » Wed, Sep 20, 2017, 9:52 AM UTC

mtgx wrote: post #15

baybal2 wrote: post #8

This sounds alarmistic to me. Diesel emissions are exaggerated. European emission standards set limits for diesel emissions that are just minutely different from gasoline emissions. American limits for diesels are notorious for being more restrictive than for gas engines. All of that considered, diesels are plainly more economical and more efficient on pretty much all common engine size ranges

First off, the big problem with diesel is not CO2, but NOx gases, which are way more immediately dangerous to human health. That's why some cities are thinking of banning them ASAP right now. Second, besides VW which was creating even 40x the emissions than the standard you mentioned required, pretty much all the other car makers were creating 10-15x as many emissions, too, thus making that "strict standard" way loos…

>NOx

So is the Ozone. Diesels with lower NO emissions than that of gas engines are made all around the place.

All same, if not worse for particulate emissions

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#22

Post by oarfish » Wed, Sep 20, 2017, 9:53 AM UTC

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #2

As a person, she's extremely obstinate. For a leader, this trait can be advantageous - after all, who wants a leader who changes their minds all the time - but for the rest of Europe it's a curse. Somehow she is unable to admit she made some serious mistakes, and we're all suffering because of it.

Well it rather seems she changes her mind all the time. You can find various compilations of instances where she doubled back on earlier statements (sometime from years ago, but still). I get the impression she is extremely opportunistic, at least on a larger scale.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#23

Post by Tomte » Wed, Sep 20, 2017, 9:53 AM UTC

marze wrote: post #6

Germany's generous subsidy and build out of solar, while solar was still really expensive, was key in driving the cost down which now the whole world benefits from. Huge credit there. But bio fuels are an unmitigated disaster. Electric ground transportation is the future.

If scientists finally succeed in mimicking the oxygen evolving complex from photosynthesis, you get decentralized free hydrogen. Suddenly real hydrogen combustion (instead of fuel cells) makes sense and should be advantageous, even compared to electric transportation.

But, of course, it's a bit like fusion power: should be achievable in principle, but the details are infuriatingly difficult.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#24

Post by Shivetya » Wed, Sep 20, 2017, 9:54 AM UTC

yorwba wrote: post #10

The article voices a bunch of valid criticism, but I really wish it could have done so without turning environmental damage into a contest and using unsubstantiated superlatives. Is it not enough to criticize someone without claiming that they are the worst ? The jab at Trump felt misplaced as well.

However the jab at Trump shows what is wrong with the political level of environmental activity.

there is so much more implied by the Paris Accords that it actually will do and heaps of FUD to convince you it must be done or we are all doomed with a good dose of of thanks thrown to the politicians who so boldly stood up for it.

So the sycophants in press, special interest groups, and science, were all dutifully marched out to hark the message loud enough to distract from everything that actually was still going on.

Politics is the art of distraction and division as practiced by modern politicians who are adept at manipulating public opinion usually with the full cooperation of a sympathetic press.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#25

Post by shangxiao » Wed, Sep 20, 2017, 9:55 AM UTC

yorwba wrote: post #10

The article voices a bunch of valid criticism, but I really wish it could have done so without turning environmental damage into a contest and using unsubstantiated superlatives. Is it not enough to criticize someone without claiming that they are the worst ? The jab at Trump felt misplaced as well.

I feel like jabs at conservative politics are the norm now with a lot of journalism. A few weeks back an article [1] I read, from reddit, started with:

    …the dastardly Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor seem to be a great gift to the Alt-Right’s xenophobic nationalists.

Interesting article, but unnecessary (and daresay incorrect?) jab at the start.

[1] http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-american-who-buried-a-kamik...

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#26

Post by lispm » Wed, Sep 20, 2017, 9:57 AM UTC

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #2

As a person, she's extremely obstinate. For a leader, this trait can be advantageous - after all, who wants a leader who changes their minds all the time - but for the rest of Europe it's a curse. Somehow she is unable to admit she made some serious mistakes, and we're all suffering because of it.

That's actually the opposite of the perception of Angela Merkel in Germany. In Germany she is seen as populist, because she changes her mind quite often or waits until the public opinion is clear. Only in the refugee crisis, she was seen as following moral principles having not made any concessions to right wing politics (which earned her a lot of respect and a lot of hate). Make no mistake, generally her team is very accurately tracking public opinion.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#27

Post by ringaroundthetx » Wed, Sep 20, 2017, 9:58 AM UTC

kome wrote: post #5

Very good article. The industry-government nexus in Germany is indeed super powerful and underrated: other countries call it corruption, in Germany is called corporatism. In the last few years we saw it in action, with important repercussion on the global level: for example, the way the Greek crisis was managed it had to do much more with the safety of German banks, that with the welfare of Greece ( https://www.esmt.…

> other countries call it corruption, in Germany is called corporatism

I notice this world wide

I ask government officials for "expedited processing" with IRL emphasis and air quotes when I want something done faster, some times it could be construed as a kick back, other times the legislature had already voted for that where I must congratulate them for their keen recognition of revenue streams.

I don't consider due process as the qualifier of non-corruption. I don't actually care.

I just wish more people would accept the relative morality of the institutions they comply with.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#28

Post by jonathanstrange » Wed, Sep 20, 2017, 10:00 AM UTC

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #2

As a person, she's extremely obstinate. For a leader, this trait can be advantageous - after all, who wants a leader who changes their minds all the time - but for the rest of Europe it's a curse. Somehow she is unable to admit she made some serious mistakes, and we're all suffering because of it.

Well, political opinions differ. I personally don't think Merkel has made any mistakes whatsoever. If the elections were only about the main candidates, I'd definitely have voted for her in the next election (have already voted). She seems to be the only person left in charge who takes basic human rights and humanist values seriously; for everyone else they seem to be only important as a lip service and as long as they are convenient.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#29

Post by Flockster » Wed, Sep 20, 2017, 10:02 AM UTC

oarfish wrote: post #22

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #2

As a person, she's extremely obstinate. For a leader, this trait can be advantageous - after all, who wants a leader who changes their minds all the time - but for the rest of Europe it's a curse. Somehow she is unable to admit she made some serious mistakes, and we're all suffering because of it.

Well it rather seems she changes her mind all the time. You can find various compilations of instances where she doubled back on earlier statements (sometime from years ago, but still). I get the impression she is extremely opportunistic, at least on a larger scale.

Wasn't it at the WH Correspondants Dinner, where Colbert said to Bush: "He believes the same thing Wednesday, that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday. Events can change, this man’s beliefs never will."

I really have a hard time blaming someone for changing views over a legislative period of more than 12 years.

Re: Angela Merkel’s record on environmental policy has been a disaster

#30

Post by lispm » Wed, Sep 20, 2017, 10:03 AM UTC

mtgx wrote: post #15

baybal2 wrote: post #8

This sounds alarmistic to me. Diesel emissions are exaggerated. European emission standards set limits for diesel emissions that are just minutely different from gasoline emissions. American limits for diesels are notorious for being more restrictive than for gas engines. All of that considered, diesels are plainly more economical and more efficient on pretty much all common engine size ranges

First off, the big problem with diesel is not CO2, but NOx gases, which are way more immediately dangerous to human health. That's why some cities are thinking of banning them ASAP right now. Second, besides VW which was creating even 40x the emissions than the standard you mentioned required, pretty much all the other car makers were creating 10-15x as many emissions, too, thus making that "strict standard" way loos…

The industry was promoting the Diesel also with the smaller CO2 emissions of this engine.

The other negative effects of the Diesel boom was very visible for a long time and politics and authorities were ignoring it.

Merkel (and her coalition partner the CSU) is especially responsible for having a very weak minister Dobrindt, who was not willing or able to guide the automotive industry.

Merkel and the government is a part of the problem, but the automotive industry and the consumer is even more so. The automotive industry promoted the Diesel engine and the consumer bought especially the high-powered ones. The government is responsible for low Diesel taxes, supporting large company cars and a lack of regulation.