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China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

bbc.co.uk

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Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#181

Post by sova »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #116
sova wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.neowin.net/news/china-experimenting-with-its-own...

I don't get it. What's the point of a country issuing a cryptocurrency? isn't decentralization the whole point of bitcoin, ethereum, etc. ?

It is! unless you are China and you still want to make money while making sure the company line is toted by all.

China is able to track their populous really well, or at least have their population believing so, and thus anything that adds pseudo-anonymity kinda ruins their mission. In the future it is probable that all countries will have their own cryptocurrency, backed by some sort of tangible asset like Au (gold) or Ag (silver). What strikes me as very important for the US is establishment of a national cryptocurrency. It can be anonymous (everyday cash is essentially anonymous), but the consensus on how to regulate one is very much a process of education (elder generation finance people don't really get bitcoin yet). So once regulatory measures can be taken to ensure there's no theft etc, then it'll be easy. China's thinking on the matter is that if it cannot be regulated, shut it down and make a version that can be.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#182

Post by charlesdm »

occamrazor wrote: post #93
dreen wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used it to transfer money between countries with an exchange rate better than any other available. Surely this is not illegal?

Forex commissions are lower than 1%. Which exchanges offer better rates on a fiat/bitcoin/fiat transfer?

I can exchange FX at 0.5% market rate, and that's through an online stock broker. I can probably do better through a forex broker, e.g. 0.25%. I don't see how Bitcoin can be more competitive.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#183

Post by baybal2 »

gcb0 wrote: post #180
baybal2 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I worked in Shanghai this year, I noticed that a business openly advertising "large sum transfers" was located literally one door away from city's procurator office.

what is their definition of large?

God knows, but shops that advertise different capital exfiltration services do advertise their services rather openly in China.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#184

Post by gcb0 »

gph wrote: post #175
throwaway613834 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well that is sort of a common law view of things. But most countries practice case law Aren't these the same thing? [1] Do you mean something else (civil law)? But that's a great point; maybe the problem is my lack of living in a purely civil law country. The thing is though, it seems more like common sense to me than a legal issue. Like for example, if (say) murder with a knife and a gun had been illegal, but ther…

Yea sorry, meant civil law. Murder is kind of hard to use as an example because there's typically really strong moral and cultural understandings that you shouldn't be doing that. But lets think of a more nuanced example. Lets say there's a lake that's being overfished. The government doesn't want to outlaw all fishing, but they want to rein in the more massive fishing operations. So they outlaw using trawler nets in…

murder is actually the perfect example.

it was legal in so many ways in the past (slavery) and a few today (death penalty, wars)

the thing with all laws, and the state, is that they exist not to make the world fair, but ti maintain status quo.

in the death example, if the law explicitly left baseball bats deaths out, that means that someone with influence over the state wanted it to be exempt.

this is the same on china now probably. china has tons of tech and hydropower. heck they may have invented satoshi! and maybe now too many small players are disrupting their game? or it maybe be that btc is but an annoyance to them and when their economy crumbles because of the upcomingreal state buble they dont want to also have to deal with people loosing money to bogus ICOs. who knows?

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#185

Post by tannerbrockwell »

fwdslash wrote: post #121
eloff wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash is the original anonymous "crypto"-currency. Still the preferred tool of money launderers, drug dealers, pimps, black marketeers, and other neerdowells everywhere. Also, offers real anonymity with no blockchain records.

I completely agree with this. For years, I was a crypto-currency advocate, telling any and all that it's better than their credit and debit cards. When I took a look at why , though, I realized that tool (in physical form) already exists: cash. As long as you trade a few with a few friends, or buy something from a Mom & Pop, no one can really know what bills you have, and there's no record, ever.

Every bill has a serial number. Social graph exploration of paper currency is possible with bill readers at only a few points in the bill life cycle.

If the same nodes repeatedly 'touch' the same serial numbers you can infer a relation.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#186

Post by eloff »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #106
eloff wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is in China now. Russia too IIRC. Probably several other countries that impose capital controls. In the west this is legal, but the bank may still ask you where the money came from under their enforcement of laws like knowing your customer and money laundering controls. Tax agencies may also get involved if there is automatic reporting.

How is it illegal in Russia?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-28/russian-l...

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#187

Post by eloff »

tannerbrockwell wrote: post #185
fwdslash wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with this. For years, I was a crypto-currency advocate, telling any and all that it's better than their credit and debit cards. When I took a look at why , though, I realized that tool (in physical form) already exists: cash. As long as you trade a few with a few friends, or buy something from a Mom & Pop, no one can really know what bills you have, and there's no record, ever.

Every bill has a serial number. Social graph exploration of paper currency is possible with bill readers at only a few points in the bill life cycle. If the same nodes repeatedly 'touch' the same serial numbers you can infer a relation.

You make it sound easier and more powerful than it really is though. For all intents and purposes, cash is mostly anonymous. Bitcoin, on the other hand, is traceable if you can map accounts to real people.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#188

Post by XR0CSWV3h3kZWg »

tannerbrockwell wrote: post #22

China will nationalize the domestic miners and treat Bitcoin as a commodity asset that the state controls. I believe this will immediately cause a constriction in supply as those coins will not be sold at least initially on the open market. Look for this messaging to coincide with the pronouncements around the new five-year plan(FYP)[1]. As the first major section of the 13th FYP, innovation is emphasized as a corner…

Interesting theory. I don't like the idea of 2/3rds of the hashpower to be owned by one player. 50% hash power means not only the ability to double spend, but also to censor txs. If someone else mines a block they don't like they can just ignore that block and eventually get the longer chain.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#189

Post by XR0CSWV3h3kZWg »

tboyd47 wrote: post #119
howlin wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of the hash power is in China. If China can seize the miners all at once, they'll have control over the blockchain. At that point, other countries would be foolish to compete, and may focus on alternate alt currencies.

But they still can't change the blockchain. And there would still be miners outside of China.

If you control 50 + epsilon percent of the hash power you can censor blocks at will. You can ignore every block that anyone else makes and still have the longest chain.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#190

Post by XR0CSWV3h3kZWg »

DINKDINK wrote: post #126
schintan wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If China is able to do it, wouldn't Bitcoin lose all its value ?

No. Miners can only double spend transactions if they have > 50 % of the hash rate. The only purpose of miners is to add proof of work to in exchange for new coins that users value. If the proof of work is on a chain that contains valid transactions and conforms to consensus rules, it'll be valuable.

If you control >50% of the hash power you can also censor tx by ignoring any block that contains them.
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