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Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

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Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#121
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, and this should be the retort to any curtailing of free speech in the name of safety. Its the same argument as allowing “the_donald” to exist on Reddit. You will not stop an ideology by denying them a platform. Better to debate them in an open forum, even if they are evil. The only way to counter bad ideas is with good ones.

> Agreed, and this should be the retort to any curtailing of free speech in the name of safety There is no free speech issue here, Twitter isn't operated by the government, neither is Facebook or Reddit. My point is, people are still free to set up their own servers at home, running their own app, their liberty to do that is not harmed by Twitter rejecting content. On the contrary, it's an opportunity for free speech…

The concept Free Speech transcends the specifics of the US Constitution's First Amendment. "Complies with US First Amendment" != "Free Speech"

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#122
post #3

I'm more interested in why it took them this long, while they're perfectly fine suspending accounts that are politically opposing to their worldview. How are political dissenters more dangerous than actual terrorists?

The word "terrorism" is a PR word intended to marginalize whatever group it is applied to. As a tactic, terrorism describes the infliction of civilian casualties meant to create a disproportionate climate of fear. By this definition, drones used in warfare are a form of terrorism. In today's world we are not fighting wars in the traditional sense of defending ourselves against aggression. Since there is no obvious th…

A private company concluding that it probably isn't a net positive for either itself or humanity to host broadcasts inciting people to drive trucks into Parisian shoppers or blow up London Tube trains is somewhat orthogonal to the question of whether US foreign policy and individual military strikes often have disastrous results.

Ironically, no argument could be more US-centric than arguing the concept of terrorism cannot exist outside of the US government's list of enemies du jour or the suggestion that corporations' right to make moral judgements about whether they wish to offer free recruitment advertising for suicide bombers should be sacrificed to the false idol of the First Amendment.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#123

Twitter has 300 million active users. So .1% of Twitter accounts were linked to terrorism, and they just purged 1/1000th of the active accounts on their system. I am shocked what a big percentage that is. That is a huge move by them.

Not to downplay the move, but by their own admission, many of them were banned before they even tweeted once. I'd bet most of them don't fall under MAU

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#124
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with a lot of what you said (and thanks for laying that out in depth, it was an interesting read), but that still doesn't change the fact that the method the US uses to target drones strikes is completely different than the method terrorists use to target their strikes. It is possible to recognize the ethical problems of the drone program while also saying it is on a higher moral ground than the random killin…

Thanks! > It is possible to recognize the ethical problems of the drone program while also saying it is on a higher moral ground than the random killing that terrorists employ. Are those ethical parameters or economic parameters? If every regime that would possibly end up in conflict with the US is expected to develop the satellite technology, smart bomb tech, drone tech, etc., before engaging in battle, that's prett…

I think they have to be ethical standards. If they are economic standards then you open up the possibility that any method of war/killing is acceptable in dire economic circumstances. That is how you get a country like North Korea threatening nuclear war.

This idea isn't uniquely American. Humanity as a whole has decided that there are different levels of morality in warfare and killing. Those standards evolve over time. You example of the American revolutionaries and the extensive use of chemical warfare in WWI are examples of things ebb and flow. But at the heart of it I think most can agree that people have a right to fight for their own freedom, but they do not have the right to indiscriminately kill. That indiscriminate killing is what separates drone warfare from terrorism.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "terrorism" is a PR word intended to marginalize whatever group it is applied to. As a tactic, terrorism describes the infliction of civilian casualties meant to create a disproportionate climate of fear. By this definition, drones used in warfare are a form of terrorism. In today's world we are not fighting wars in the traditional sense of defending ourselves against aggression. Since there is no obvious th…

A private company concluding that it probably isn't a net positive for either itself or humanity to host broadcasts inciting people to drive trucks into Parisian shoppers or blow up London Tube trains is somewhat orthogonal to the question of whether US foreign policy and individual military strikes often have disastrous results. Ironically, no argument could be more US-centric than arguing the concept of terrorism c…

Well, Twitter is a US company and has an incentive to please US officials.

Thus the context of terrorism in modern America and American politics is broadly relevant. It might be terrorists you don't like this time, but what about next time when it's terrorists you support? Who gets to decide what groups deserve that label? Donald Trump?

> ... corporations' right to make moral judgements about whether they wish to offer free recruitment advertising for suicide bombers should be sacrificed to the false idol of the First Amendment.

Fine if society actually needs companies to make moral judgments on behalf of the public. In the US there has been widespread opposition to the basic freedoms provided by the bill of rights over the past decade or so.

What we are seeing is a combination of companies helping with the US propaganda narrative about terrorism by silencing opposing voices. Worse, we are seeing companies like Twitter and Facebook turn into moral filters. Someone is deciding what is "terrorism", what is "fake news", etc. These are not the services that platform companies provide, they are the services that religious leaders provide.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#126
post #121
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Agreed, and this should be the retort to any curtailing of free speech in the name of safety There is no free speech issue here, Twitter isn't operated by the government, neither is Facebook or Reddit. My point is, people are still free to set up their own servers at home, running their own app, their liberty to do that is not harmed by Twitter rejecting content. On the contrary, it's an opportunity for free speech…

The concept Free Speech transcends the specifics of the US Constitution's First Amendment. "Complies with US First Amendment" != "Free Speech"

I don't think Free Speech has ever meant being required to publish others speech. Freedom of the press was meant to ensure you can say what you wish via pamphlets or starting your own newspaper, wherein you own the method of speech. That is why it was fundamental to Free Speech.

One has never been able to compel a publisher to publish them.

You may have a different concept, but to my way way of thinking that has always been the connection between the First Amendment and Free Speech.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a recent /r/science article that suggested the banning of coontown and fatpeoplehate resulted in less hate on the platform as a whole. Would you argue this hate moved to other avenues of the web? I'd bet some of it did, but some people just stopped being so hateful on the internet once their cesspool went away. https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/6zg6w6/reddits_ban...

It's conflation to compare coontown with the_donald. Go there right now. You won't find "kill the jews" posts. You won't find "kill the gays/black people" posts. You'll find a ton of supportive people with a particular worldview--and there's nothing wrong with that. If you assume the people you disagree with are "insane" or disregard them as "full of hate" then you'll never understand why they think the way they do a…

I frequently hear that defense of the_donald subreddit, but it seems not to be backed by facts.

Yes, it is extremely important not to dehumanize our political opponents and to understand all the terrible things that made people be disillusioned with the establishment and vote for Trump.

But the_donald community is definitely extreme in their fundamentalism, way beyond just being supportive of Trump's political agenda. Looking at their front page does actually show islamophobic and sexists posts and frequent calls/cheers to violence, contrary to your claims.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#128
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! > It is possible to recognize the ethical problems of the drone program while also saying it is on a higher moral ground than the random killing that terrorists employ. Are those ethical parameters or economic parameters? If every regime that would possibly end up in conflict with the US is expected to develop the satellite technology, smart bomb tech, drone tech, etc., before engaging in battle, that's prett…

I think they have to be ethical standards. If they are economic standards then you open up the possibility that any method of war/killing is acceptable in dire economic circumstances. That is how you get a country like North Korea threatening nuclear war. This idea isn't uniquely American. Humanity as a whole has decided that there are different levels of morality in warfare and killing. Those standards evolve over t…

>That is how you get a country like North Korea threatening nuclear war.

To be clear, North Korea has not threatened starting a nuclear war. They have threatened that if they are attacked, they will respond with nuclear weapons. This is essentially the same threat that all nuclear powers make.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#129
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! > It is possible to recognize the ethical problems of the drone program while also saying it is on a higher moral ground than the random killing that terrorists employ. Are those ethical parameters or economic parameters? If every regime that would possibly end up in conflict with the US is expected to develop the satellite technology, smart bomb tech, drone tech, etc., before engaging in battle, that's prett…

I think they have to be ethical standards. If they are economic standards then you open up the possibility that any method of war/killing is acceptable in dire economic circumstances. That is how you get a country like North Korea threatening nuclear war. This idea isn't uniquely American. Humanity as a whole has decided that there are different levels of morality in warfare and killing. Those standards evolve over t…

I'm sympathetic to your view because I used to hold it.

> I think they have to be ethical standards. If they are economic standards then you open up the possibility that any method of war/killing is acceptable in dire economic circumstances.

Why should any method be acceptable? Why not have (for example) Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un put on boxing gloves and determine the fate of NK's nuclear program with a boxing match?

The US has been enacting sanctions on NK for decades which have caused significant suffering of NK's population. The pain and suffering caused by those sanctions, the starving children, etc., are viewed by the US to be the fault of NK's leaders simply because they do not obey US directives.

From the perspective of the US, the sanctions are a humane way of putting pressure on NK's regime that are nonviolent. Are the pangs of hunger felt by the children who are starving or malnourished due to those sanctions nonviolent?

In international conflict, all that matters is one nation's ability to force another nation's hand. Imagine if NK were able to do something to cause Americans to miss three meals per week until the US backed down from its extreme position on NK's regime. We laugh about this because it is so unlikely, but what is the difference?

The hawks will tell us with a straight face that KJU is mentally unstable. Note that all leaders that the US wishes to remove from power are labeled mentally unstable or insane and unpredictable. Our propagandists leverage the fear that many people feel for mental illness and label the enemy with it to make us more easily mistrust and hate the enemy.

By every rational account, KJU is playing a cool, long-term game and is using his power and resources effectively to stave off US bullying. While I would certainly prefer he not have nuclear weapons, there is no evidence that he is unstable or irrational. He simply hasn't gone for the carrots that have been halfheartedly offered, and multiple US presidents have failed to improve the situation.

Is KJU supposed to simply say "OK, Donald Trump, I will step down because I would never threaten to launch a nuclear weapon at a country that declares my regime illegitimate and threatens me with military operations in nearby waters"? It's pretty absurd to think he'd do that. His incentive at this point (based on what has been offered) is to make the US worry that any strikes or attempts to unseat his government could result in a nuke being launched at one of the population centers of the US or a US ally.

Note that KJU has not threatened nuclear war in isolation, it has simply threatened to respond if attacked.

> Those standards evolve over time.

What has occurred is that the US now has much more control over which wars it wishes to enter, and has a more difficult time persuading citizens to risk their lives fighting. So the sort of military that we have today is designed to allow wars to continue in spite of the lack of obvious threats. Since the threats are not obvious, it is not possible to convince the American people to carpet bomb a country that is not obviously at war with us, so a more surgical method must be used in order to get enlistees for optional wars.

The moral progress narrative is just that, a narrative. If we ended up in a fight with a true adversary we would throw it out the window and use all sorts of newly developed weapons (such as EMF weapons that peel the skin off of enemy soldiers, sound weapons that deafen the enemy and cause months of headaches, etc.).

War is about force and coercion, and war requires public support in a democracy. Those two things are (I believe) the fundamentals from which all of the rest of the scenarios (technology, morality, etc.) fall out.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#130
post #68

> Twitter said about 75 percent of the blocked accounts this year were spotted before a single tweet was sent Fascinating... Just based on the username and the user's self-description?

Obviously not. You can fingerprint a user/device with a lot of information from your browser. You can detect obvious things like browser, IP address, OS, but also more unique details like battery level, screen size, etc.

I understand that, but an IP address doesn't make an account an ISIS account. An ISIS supporter might also be a Galatasaray SK supporter...
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