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Rolling Stone, Once a Counterculture Bible, Will Be Put Up for Sale

nytimes.com

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Re: Rolling Stone, Once a Counterculture Bible, Will Be Put Up for Sale

#61

Post by coldtea »

yung_endian wrote: post #52
coldtea wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, at the same time, there are no young/anti-establishment people of today of any consequence. Not in any such numbers as to constitute an actual counter-culture anyway...

>And, at the same time, there are no young/anti-establishment people of today of any consequence LGBTQ spaces and movements? Black Lives Matter? Occupy Wall St and the subsequent progressive upswell which led to Bernie Sanders, an unknown independent from Vermont, to garner nearly as many votes as one of the most well-known politicians on the planet?

Those are so tame, popular and media-friendly that are their own part of the modern establishment. Furthermore, they focus on small niches (gender, police brutality, etc) and are otherwise totally content with modern society. And OWS died before it was even born -- the best it could manage to was to prop up an alternative Democratic candidate (that would have given the same kind of fake "Hope" Obama ended up delivering to those that believed in him).

If tame middle aged people who listen to Enya and mass media outlets can root for your cause, you're not exactly a counter-culture.

Re: Rolling Stone, Once a Counterculture Bible, Will Be Put Up for Sale

#62

Post by coldtea »

tclancy wrote: post #45
coldtea wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, at the same time, there are no young/anti-establishment people of today of any consequence. Not in any such numbers as to constitute an actual counter-culture anyway...

Is that true? It's not like effective counter-culture stuff is ever easily recognizable by older generations. Otherwise it wouldn't be fun. Remember ever cool word/ term you knew as a kid and how they immediately stopped being cool once you heard your parents use them?

>It's not like effective counter-culture stuff is ever easily recognizable by older generations.

It might not be easily understood, but it's usually both easily recognizable and frequently condemned.

We're not talking about some secret society, but about major currents for change.

>Remember ever cool word/ term you knew as a kid and how they immediately stopped being cool once you heard your parents use them?

Yes. That's pop culture. Not anti-establishment culture.

Re: Rolling Stone, Once a Counterculture Bible, Will Be Put Up for Sale

#63

Post by cvwright »

JBReefer wrote: post #39
coldtea wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, at the same time, there are no young/anti-establishment people of today of any consequence. Not in any such numbers as to constitute an actual counter-culture anyway...

I think it's shocking how normative the culture is today. Fringe media says exactly the same things - pro-social justice, pro-a large social safety net, deep concern about climate change - as the major media. The only actual "counterculture" seems to be Breitbart et al, which is ... a change. Paper Magazine, the New York Times, and Gothamist now mostly reflect the same cultural ideals. It's fascinating. Was this what…

Funny that you mention Breitbart. Their founder Andrew Breitbart claimed that he helped start Huffington Post in an effort to show that mainstream news sources (NY Times etc) actually share most of the views of groups toward the far left, ie the former counterculture.

Was he successful? He certainly convinced most of the people on the right, but they were already on his bandwagon anyway... As someone in the middle, it's looking more and more like he had a point. (Even if the site that bears his name has become.. well, whatever it is, now.)

Re: Rolling Stone, Once a Counterculture Bible, Will Be Put Up for Sale

#64

Post by mikestew »

thanatropism wrote: post #42

In a different (but intersecting) market, _Outside_ magazine is very good.

Outside, the magazine that just published a puff piece on Lance Armstrong that ended up on HN somehow? Yeah, that magazine has become about as vapid as RS has.

Re: Rolling Stone, Once a Counterculture Bible, Will Be Put Up for Sale

#65

Post by hsod »

coldtea wrote: post #61
yung_endian wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And, at the same time, there are no young/anti-establishment people of today of any consequence LGBTQ spaces and movements? Black Lives Matter? Occupy Wall St and the subsequent progressive upswell which led to Bernie Sanders, an unknown independent from Vermont, to garner nearly as many votes as one of the most well-known politicians on the planet?

Those are so tame, popular and media-friendly that are their own part of the modern establishment. Furthermore, they focus on small niches (gender, police brutality, etc) and are otherwise totally content with modern society. And OWS died before it was even born -- the best it could manage to was to prop up an alternative Democratic candidate (that would have given the same kind of fake "Hope" Obama ended up deliveri…

> Furthermore, they focus on small niches (gender, police brutality, etc)

Neither of these is a small niche. Police brutality is a huge, huge issue. It may seem like a small niche to people who are not members of targeted demographics, though.

> and are otherwise totally content with modern society.

What leads you to believe this? From my personal experience this couldn't be more wrong

Anyway, if you want real counter culture that middle aged people will still clutch their pearls over... what about Antifa?

Re: Rolling Stone, Once a Counterculture Bible, Will Be Put Up for Sale

#66

Post by coldtea »

hsod wrote: post #65
coldtea wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are so tame, popular and media-friendly that are their own part of the modern establishment. Furthermore, they focus on small niches (gender, police brutality, etc) and are otherwise totally content with modern society. And OWS died before it was even born -- the best it could manage to was to prop up an alternative Democratic candidate (that would have given the same kind of fake "Hope" Obama ended up deliveri…

> Furthermore, they focus on small niches (gender, police brutality, etc) Neither of these is a small niche. Police brutality is a huge, huge issue. It may seem like a small niche to people who are not members of targeted demographics, though. > and are otherwise totally content with modern society. What leads you to believe this? From my personal experience this couldn't be more wrong Anyway, if you want real counte…

>It may seem like a small niche to people who are not members of targeted demographics, though.

I'm not saying it's not important -- but as a request for change it is niche in scope, that is constrained to a small area of life (even if you are one of the targeted demographics).

>What leads you to believe this?*

Well, some internet ranting and rare protesting aside I don't see any alternative lifestyles there (or only very trite ones, the "fair trade coffee" equivalent of politics). It's all business as usual otherwise.

>Anyway, if you want real counter culture that middle aged people will still clutch their pearls over... what about Antifa?

Better in the shocks middle aged people respect, but scores less points on "culture". It's a reaction-based group, not an alternative cultural force.

Re: Rolling Stone, Once a Counterculture Bible, Will Be Put Up for Sale

#67

Post by baldfat »

baldfat wrote: post #7
sortaThrowaway wrote: post #3

Was on and off reader of RS. Their non/half apology for their University of Virginia rape story really turn me off. They didn't seem to understand (or care?) what they did wrong and thus didn't really apologize.

I don't know when they asked the founder what his biggest regret was it was that story.

Well this seemed to be pretty straight forward? - http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/a-note-to-our-reade...

We published the article with the firm belief that it was accurate. Given all of these reports, however, we have come to the conclusion that we were mistaken in honoring Jackie's request to not contact the alleged assaulters to get their account. In trying to be sensitive to the unfair shame and humiliation many women feel after a sexual assault, we made a judgment – the kind of judgment reporters and editors make every day. We should have not made this agreement with Jackie and we should have worked harder to convince her that the truth would have been better served by getting the other side of the story. These mistakes are on Rolling Stone, not on Jackie. We apologize to anyone who was affected by the story and we will continue to investigate the events of that evening.

Re: Rolling Stone, Once a Counterculture Bible, Will Be Put Up for Sale

#68

Post by dragontamer »

seabta wrote: post #59
dragontamer wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not gay, and therefore gay marriage and other LGBT issues have absolutely no positive effect on me personally. There's nothing scary about gay marriage, even if it advances the interests of people who are barely connected to me (I only have a few publicly gay friends, and most of them managed to get married by traveling elsewhere... like Canada). The whole "white nationalism" thingy with them freaking out about "…

>There's nothing scary about gay marriage, even... First of all, how many people do you think are "scared" of gay marriage? Second, whether that's true or it isn't has no bearing on this discussion. That is a different situation with its own particular set of circumstances. There is no need to complicate this discussion by talking about that. Do you have any evidence that white nationalists deny the existence of non-…

> Do you think it's fundamentally impossible for other races to ever benefit at the expense of whites?

I'm generally against rules and regulations where one race benefits over another.

> Do you have any evidence that white nationalists deny the existence of non-zero sum games?

Evidence? Nah, just an anecdote about my experience. White Nationalists refuse to understand that all races can benefit from proper policy decisions, and turn everything into an "us vs them".

For example, a common white nationalist refrain is "They took our jobs". While the counterargument is simply "They took the jobs that no one wants to take", or perhaps "More jobs for everybody creates more jobs for everybody". After all, the economy expands when more people have money, because more people start spending it on more services.

Yes: if illegal immigrants spend more money, then the local economy benefits and more jobs can be created.

For whatever reason, white nationalists refuse to believe in the possibility that maybe, just maybe, there exists a path for everybody to benefit in society.

> Surely you understand that it's perfectly possible for one race to benefit at the expense of another.

Yes. Racial quotas are an example of that. But good policy decisions don't necessarily have to resort to quotas to fix the issues of dwindling inner-city opportunities for people in poverty.

A proper policy framework and law structure can ensure that everybody benefits. A rising tide lifts all boats.

A wall, deportation-based policy, and other such policy decisions FORCE the discussion to become a zero-sum game. A bit of creativity and foresight however can demonstrate far better fixes that are better for society overall.

Re: Rolling Stone, Once a Counterculture Bible, Will Be Put Up for Sale

#69

Post by [deleted] »

dragontamer wrote: post #68
seabta wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's nothing scary about gay marriage, even... First of all, how many people do you think are "scared" of gay marriage? Second, whether that's true or it isn't has no bearing on this discussion. That is a different situation with its own particular set of circumstances. There is no need to complicate this discussion by talking about that. Do you have any evidence that white nationalists deny the existence of non-…

> Do you think it's fundamentally impossible for other races to ever benefit at the expense of whites? I'm generally against rules and regulations where one race benefits over another. > Do you have any evidence that white nationalists deny the existence of non-zero sum games? Evidence? Nah, just an anecdote about my experience. White Nationalists refuse to understand that all races can benefit from proper policy dec…

[deleted]

Re: Rolling Stone, Once a Counterculture Bible, Will Be Put Up for Sale

#70

Post by hsod »

coldtea wrote: post #66
hsod wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Furthermore, they focus on small niches (gender, police brutality, etc) Neither of these is a small niche. Police brutality is a huge, huge issue. It may seem like a small niche to people who are not members of targeted demographics, though. > and are otherwise totally content with modern society. What leads you to believe this? From my personal experience this couldn't be more wrong Anyway, if you want real counte…

> It may seem like a small niche to people who are not members of targeted demographics, though. I'm not saying it's not important -- but as a request for change it is niche in scope, that is constrained to a small area of life (even if you are one of the targeted demographics). >What leads you to believe this?* Well, some internet ranting and rare protesting aside I don't see any alternative lifestyles there (or onl…

> constrained to a small area of life (even if you are one of the targeted demographics).

The specter of police violence is not constrained to a small area of life for members of targeted demographics....

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