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Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

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Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#91
post #52
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that the real comms already do happen outside of Twitter, and that Twitter is simply a recruitment platform/loudspeaker

Indeed. I would be very surprised if any real planning happened on twitter DMs. That would be unbelievably stupid, with the NSA stuff now being so well known

It's a great way to plant false plans. You don't have to carry them out unless the threat was never mitigated(if it wasn't taken seriously, then you can carry it out for 2x damage: part being the attack itself, the second part being that "they knew and did nothing!").

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#93
post #66

There's no way they audited 300,000 accounts and got conclusive results about all of them. I wonder how many innocent accounts were swept up in this?

The article EXPLICITLY states: > Of those, roughly 95 percent were identified by the company’s spam-fighting automation tools So yes, your hunch is right, but it's also mentioned in the article.

To be fair, it also EXPLICITLY states:

> Twitter said about 75 percent of the blocked accounts this year were spotted before a single tweet was sent

So the impact to average users is probably not very substantial.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#94
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that the real comms already do happen outside of Twitter, and that Twitter is simply a recruitment platform/loudspeaker

Your guess would be 100% correct. We built huge spy networks only to find out that the terrorists don't even use the internet for their plans. They use burner phones and other non-tech solutions (paper?! omgawdwtf.) because (surprise!) they're harder to track on a systematic level.

Before he was killed Bin Laden communicated with his inner circle only by USB drives transported by sneakernet - his bunker lacked Internet connection but his communications were electronic. I think some of his communication was re-transmitted by his couriers over the Internet though but not through locations that were physically near where he was hiding.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#95
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "terrorism" is a PR word intended to marginalize whatever group it is applied to. As a tactic, terrorism describes the infliction of civilian casualties meant to create a disproportionate climate of fear. By this definition, drones used in warfare are a form of terrorism. In today's world we are not fighting wars in the traditional sense of defending ourselves against aggression. Since there is no obvious th…

You are missing the biggest differentiating factor of terrorism, the targeting of innocent civilians. Yes, US drone strikes do cause fear in a similar way to terrorism. Yes, civilians are being killed by US drone strikes. Yes, that fact is morally reprehensible. But no drone strike is launched with the sole intent of killing civilians. That is a world of difference.

> But no drone strike is launched with the sole intent of killing civilians. That is a world of difference.

I used to agree with your assertion. I will explain why I no longer do.

The goal of warfare is very simply to break the will of the opposing population to keep fighting.

Taking out roadways and bridges and sewage treatment plants with smart bombs is another way to break the opponent's will. Not quite as demoralizing as a funeral for a loved one killed by the enemy, but demoralizing nonetheless. That is why we use smart bombs to take out infrastructure... to make life harder for the enemy so that its will is broken.

In the revolutionary war, guerrilla tactics like taking cover behind a tree were considered morally cowardly and abhorrent by the British, yet were embraced by revolutionaries as an effective tactic in an asymmetric battle.

During WW2 the US carpet bombed the Japanese mainland, intent on total devastation of entire cities (civilians included) so that the Japanese would relent and give up the fight.

During the Vietnam war the US used chemical weapons extensively, which had extensive civilian consequences.

The point if the argument so far is to illustrate that the line between acceptable and unacceptable civilian casualties is (for the US, at least) very flexible based on the urgency of the battle. The closer we are to not winning the more readily we will do away with any aversion to civilian casualties. The same is true for any nation or other group of fighters.

The second question is, why has the US invested so much money in smart bombs and drones? We are told that it is because the US has an extremely high moral standard when it comes to warfare, and we are spending Trillions on these weapons systems simply because we value the lives of civilian populations so much that we are willing to make this massive investment.

The real reason we have done this is because after the cold war the US lost its appetite for discretionary war-making. The jig was up. The threat of the spread of communism never panned out and a generation had been deeply impacted by the Vietnam war. Many had seen combat, many had lost friends or family in a war that was widely viewed as a horrible mistake.

In order to sell Americans on war again, our leaders had to be able to launch a hygienic war. Recall during GW1 how we saw live video of bombs dropping precisely onto targets that we were told contained munitions or other weapons bunkers. These bombs could be dropped right next to a hospital or school and create no harm for the patients or students. Finally, the US had technology that allowed the exceptional moral character of our war initiatives to be reflected in the character of the battle. The people were reassured that only the bad stuff was being harmed.

As US entanglement in the middle eastern wars got bigger and bigger, opposition groups grew more resilient to the smart bombs and were able to put up a fight that required something even more precise.

So drones were created that contain precision cameras and weaponry, allowing areal executions of enemies to be undertaken cleanly, without killing anyone who wasn't deemed guilty by whoever in the US had ordered the strike.

This all makes sense if you believe the story that Afghanistan and Iraq (for example) are full of mostly US-loving people and a few hostile combatants who hate us for our freedoms.

In reality, there is widespread public support of so-called terrorist groups, widespread resentment of US involvement. How can the US manage to police this sort of environment?

If you are driving a car and you go too fast you can be caught speeding. The penalty of the time wasted and the cost of the ticket discourages people from speeding. In US drone-controlled areas, the drone killings offer a broad deterrent for behavioral misconduct.

Only if one buys into the US definition of guilt as being appropriately determined by someone who has been authorized to order the strikes is this remotely fair or reasonable.

What is more effective to intimidate a population into compliance, a system with too many false negatives or one with too many false positives? I'd argue that false positives (unwarranted or loosely-justified killings) are exactly the sort of thing that helps enforce the sort of control that the US wants.

Imagine if in the US we heard about people being killed via drone killings on American soil. It would terrify lots of people. Imagine if some foreign body was determining who was guilty and innocent and we had no democratic say in the criteria used to make this determination?

It leaves no choice for the target population but to live in fear and to supplicate to the US and hope for mercy. We Americans are told that there is some incredibly humane stuff going on and that we are able to make all this happen without sending as many American troops into harm's way. But in reality we are being led to believe a story of humane and judicious use of force that is simply a story meant to get us to support the war and nation building efforts and has no basis in reality.

Drones are like lethal sheep dogs herding the population (sheep) in a way that the US wants. They use just enough brutality to get the job done, and the brutality comes in the form of actual death for some, but constant teeth gnashing stress as the propellors are heard overhead, constant empty reassurances given to children that everything will be OK and that they won't be targeted, etc. The purpose of the drones is to keep the level of terror and fear just high enough to get compliant behavior... to coerce the target population into compliance.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "terrorism" is a PR word intended to marginalize whatever group it is applied to. As a tactic, terrorism describes the infliction of civilian casualties meant to create a disproportionate climate of fear. By this definition, drones used in warfare are a form of terrorism. In today's world we are not fighting wars in the traditional sense of defending ourselves against aggression. Since there is no obvious th…

terrorism describes the infliction of civilian casualties meant to create a disproportionate climate of fear. By this definition, drones used in warfare are a form of terrorism. Let's address that point. First, that's a convenient definition that erases the distinction between State and non-State violence which is critical to many people's formulations of what is and isn't permissible. E.g I wouldn't tolerate my neig…

>Secondly, drone warfare isn't conducted primarily to kill civilian targets. Sure, bystanders do die in the process but there's never been an account of a US drone strike that was motivated by the desire to instill fear in civilians by maximizing civilian causalities.

This isn't a drone strike, but wasn't the goal of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs to kill as many civilians as possible in order to instill so much fear that their country surrendered? If that is the criteria for terrorism, then we have certainly already committed the largest terrorist attack in world history.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#97

I understand why Twitter might not want ISIS accounts on their service but from a national security standpoint, it seems better to have the communication happening on a U.S.-based service like Twitter than some darknet or crypto-centric app.

Agreed, and this should be the retort to any curtailing of free speech in the name of safety. Its the same argument as allowing “the_donald” to exist on Reddit. You will not stop an ideology by denying them a platform. Better to debate them in an open forum, even if they are evil. The only way to counter bad ideas is with good ones.

> Agreed, and this should be the retort to any curtailing of free speech in the name of safety

There is no free speech issue here, Twitter isn't operated by the government, neither is Facebook or Reddit. My point is, people are still free to set up their own servers at home, running their own app, their liberty to do that is not harmed by Twitter rejecting content. On the contrary, it's an opportunity for free speech advocates to remember that.

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#98
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article EXPLICITLY states: > Of those, roughly 95 percent were identified by the company’s spam-fighting automation tools So yes, your hunch is right, but it's also mentioned in the article.

To be fair, it also EXPLICITLY states: > Twitter said about 75 percent of the blocked accounts this year were spotted before a single tweet was sent So the impact to average users is probably not very substantial.

One of those was probably mine. I was banned within five minutes of signing up, I'm guessing because I was using semi-public wifi and didn't provide a phone number (although the signup form says it's optional.) The stated reason was for "bot-like activity".

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a recent /r/science article that suggested the banning of coontown and fatpeoplehate resulted in less hate on the platform as a whole. Would you argue this hate moved to other avenues of the web? I'd bet some of it did, but some people just stopped being so hateful on the internet once their cesspool went away. https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/6zg6w6/reddits_ban...

It's conflation to compare coontown with the_donald. Go there right now. You won't find "kill the jews" posts. You won't find "kill the gays/black people" posts. You'll find a ton of supportive people with a particular worldview--and there's nothing wrong with that. If you assume the people you disagree with are "insane" or disregard them as "full of hate" then you'll never understand why they think the way they do a…

I was curious and peeked over to see what's currently popular over at the_donald. Some of the top-voted recent links:

* "UN Globalists are on suicide watch after President Trump's speech"

* "One of the best quotes of the speech. Socialist cucks BTFO!"

* "This tweet from David Brock's cucks is less than 2 weeks old and has already aged terribly."

* "Can you imagine a world without Islam?"

* "HE TRULY IS A GOD AMONG MEN" (God-Emperor Trump)

* "Since 9/11 there have been ~35,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks; that's an average of 2,000 per year... So let's (A) NEVER FORGET, (B) PRESS F, and (C) DRIVE. THEM. OUT. FROM. THE. EARTH!"

Re: Twitter Suspends 300k Accounts Tied to Terrorism in 2017

#100
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the biggest differentiating factor of terrorism, the targeting of innocent civilians. Yes, US drone strikes do cause fear in a similar way to terrorism. Yes, civilians are being killed by US drone strikes. Yes, that fact is morally reprehensible. But no drone strike is launched with the sole intent of killing civilians. That is a world of difference.

This is a fun discussion because you're both right and tomes have been written about the definition of terrorism. Some of the actions of the IRA or the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon in 82 are interesting events to consider in the civilian/military distinction. It's also worth noting that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were acts of terror under most definitions. This is a good definition, which IIRC was compiled f…

That is a better definition than mine since I used the word civilian. You are right that terrorist attacks can be directed at military members.

I would maybe challenge or tweak the state actors inclusion in potential perpetrators. The bombing of population centers like London, Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, etc. during WWII feels like a separate category. Those should still be war crimes, however the fact that they were carried out during an active war by the military would seem to make them a little different than traditional terrorist attacks.

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