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China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

bbc.co.uk

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Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#91
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>China will nationalize the domestic miners and treat Bitcoin as a commodity asset that the state controls Sounds like a good reason for a fork.

But if China has the majority of mining power, they can start mining your fork and do as they please with it.

which (at this point in time and in the foreseeable future) they definitely do.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#92
post #15

As soon as I read this, two words came to mind: Capital flight. A growing number of Chinese nationals has been using Bitcoin to siphon money out of China over the past several years.[1][2] Not surprisingly, the Chinese government is cracking down on this innovative form of capital flight. [1] http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1891021-how-chinese-use-bitc... [2] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/markets/chinese-i…

Note that the Chinese government also demanded DVDs of all transaction records at the exchanges. This means that the Chinese citizens who moved their Bitcoin off of the exchange will have to answer to the bean counters. How could a clever Chinese citizen avoid government scrutiny of their cryptocurrency finances under these conditions? They could trade Yuan (cash) for BTC through an underground mechanism of some sort…

They could buy the hardware and power needed to mine new coins. This seems to be the simplest solution for someone who wants to get a couple thousand bitcoins without leaving a paper trail.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#93
post #18
post #15

As soon as I read this, two words came to mind: Capital flight. A growing number of Chinese nationals has been using Bitcoin to siphon money out of China over the past several years.[1][2] Not surprisingly, the Chinese government is cracking down on this innovative form of capital flight. [1] http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1891021-how-chinese-use-bitc... [2] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/markets/chinese-i…

I used it to transfer money between countries with an exchange rate better than any other available. Surely this is not illegal?

Forex commissions are lower than 1%. Which exchanges offer better rates on a fiat/bitcoin/fiat transfer?

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#94
post #14
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think all governments hate the crypto part of the currencies. You can't tax what you can't track. You can't manipulate what you don't have. I personally fall a little to the left of currencies. I think these monetary systems are far right Libertarian's dream seeds. I do realize I am probably wrong but this is how they make me feel.

> You can't tax what you can't track. Most cryptocurrencies are actually quite trackable. Significantly more trackable than fiat currencies. There are notable exceptions like Monero and currencies specifically meant to protect privacy, but the vast majority are quite public.

I'd say they're only more easily tracked than cash. It doesn't get much easier to track than a bank or credit card account. And of course cash has its own problems (namely, it's difficult or even illegal to get and transport in large quantities while maintaining some anonymity).

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#95
post #15

As soon as I read this, two words came to mind: Capital flight. A growing number of Chinese nationals has been using Bitcoin to siphon money out of China over the past several years.[1][2] Not surprisingly, the Chinese government is cracking down on this innovative form of capital flight. [1] http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1891021-how-chinese-use-bitc... [2] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/markets/chinese-i…

> growing number of Chinese nationals has been using Bitcoin to siphon money out of China over the past several years

Growing but irrelevant. The largest sums I've heard of being moved by Bitcoin are, at most, a few hundred thousand dollars. This pales in comparison to the invoice factories in Hong Kong, Taiwan, et cetera through whom hundreds of millions of dollars flow.

The CCP is worried about fraud in a way American regulators aren't because Chinese victims of ICOs are more likely to look to Beijing when they lose their money.

(Keep in mind that Bitcoin was fine until ICO promoters started pilfering from the masses. Also, China is loosening its capital controls in a bid to keep the renmimbi from overheating [1].)

[1] http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-capital-cont...

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. This is not legal nor financial advice. Do not launder money.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#96
post #15

As soon as I read this, two words came to mind: Capital flight. A growing number of Chinese nationals has been using Bitcoin to siphon money out of China over the past several years.[1][2] Not surprisingly, the Chinese government is cracking down on this innovative form of capital flight. [1] http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1891021-how-chinese-use-bitc... [2] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/markets/chinese-i…

Note that the Chinese government also demanded DVDs of all transaction records at the exchanges. This means that the Chinese citizens who moved their Bitcoin off of the exchange will have to answer to the bean counters. How could a clever Chinese citizen avoid government scrutiny of their cryptocurrency finances under these conditions? They could trade Yuan (cash) for BTC through an underground mechanism of some sort…

Let's do a little searching for "anonymous" in the memory hole:

http://www.newsweek.com/virtual-currency-bitcoin-anonymous-w...

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/10/10/the-crypto-cur...

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/06/bitcoin-inside-t...

https://techcrunch.com/2011/05/20/bitcoin-ven-and-the-end-of...

https://gizmodo.com/5803124/what-is-bitcoin

Hah. So the usual suspects were pimping it, in 2011, as "anonymous". Surprise!?

It's like the utopia of Internet sold in the 90s that predictably mutated into the global panopticon.

Always read the specifications. Always.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#97
post #87

China will nationalize the domestic miners and treat Bitcoin as a commodity asset that the state controls. I believe this will immediately cause a constriction in supply as those coins will not be sold at least initially on the open market. Look for this messaging to coincide with the pronouncements around the new five-year plan(FYP)[1]. As the first major section of the 13th FYP, innovation is emphasized as a corner…

Interesting theory but how can China control Bitcoin if there's nothing stopping people in other countries from mining it?

The majority of the hash power is in China. If China can seize the miners all at once, they'll have control over the blockchain. At that point, other countries would be foolish to compete, and may focus on alternate alt currencies.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#98
post #87

China will nationalize the domestic miners and treat Bitcoin as a commodity asset that the state controls. I believe this will immediately cause a constriction in supply as those coins will not be sold at least initially on the open market. Look for this messaging to coincide with the pronouncements around the new five-year plan(FYP)[1]. As the first major section of the 13th FYP, innovation is emphasized as a corner…

Interesting theory but how can China control Bitcoin if there's nothing stopping people in other countries from mining it?

Nothing "stopping" it, except the tens (hundreds?) of millions of dollars worth of hardware investment it would take before your new hashrate becomes at all competitive. It's a bit like saying there's nothing stopping you from launching your own soft drink and beating out Coca Cola (you could try, but you probably won't win).

China has a huge and possibly insurmountable lead in not just existing built hardware, but a head start in the know-how of rolling out new ASIC designs to production, (relatively) cheap factories to mass-produce hardware, access to cheap/state-subsidized electricity, and (in this hypothetical scenario of nationalization) the support of the central government of one of the largest/most-powerful nations on Earth.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#99
post #62
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The bullshit artists that already 'invested' in this scheme will now tell you that China did not matter and the people under them will parrot it. If you're so sure that it's bullshit you're free to put your money where your mouth is and short it.

1) Shorting into a bubble is usually a terrible idea. 2) The only realistic way to short BTC is to do so via a very small list of exchanges. Even if you trust them (which, given the history of cryptocurrency exchanges is hardly a given) the borrow cost is huge: there's no way you could reasonably make this kind of macro BTC bet. The combination of these two realities makes the "If you don't believe the price, you oug…

Could you expand on point 1? Or maybe point to some references?

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#100
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> governments want control over money Of course. And for a good reason. People utter this line as if governments wanting control over money was somehow bad . Money, within all human societies that exist or existed, is pretty much synonymous with power. It is the tool that allows an individual to incent, compel and coordinate other people to do what said individual wants. With $1 you can make someone cook you a hot do…

This is so wrong that I don't know where to start. First of all, people tend to forget that government is not made of angels. It is made of humans, who are susceptible to the same flaws as the rest of us: greed, hunger for power, etc. Therefore we should try to limit the power government has over us to only basic necessities. Second of all, historically, human societies functioned quite well with multiple competing c…

>> Therefore we should try to limit the power government has over us to only basic necessities.

A stable monetary climate is one of those that I am very happy to delegate.

>> In the end money is just a commodity, same as bread,

No, it's not, it's a method of exchange and follows different rules.

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