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China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

bbc.co.uk

71–80 of 233 posts

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#71
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state by definition has monopoly on violence, not power in general. You don't want a state with total centralized power over the economy because you end up with places like North Korea or the USSR with uncompetitive industry and shortages.

Violence is the most direct way to apply power, but not the only one. "Monopoly on violence" sounds cute, but it's not the precise and only thing the state is supposed to have. What good is a state so disconnected from money that it can't even fund its violence-applying apparatus? Also: control over money doesn't imply control over markets. As evidenced by pretty much all western countries.

I didn't say the state doesn't have other forms of power, only that they don't (and shouldn't) have a monopoly on it.

Anyways, Bitcoin doesn't seem like much of a threat to the kind of power developed countries have over their currencies. The USD isn't going anywhere and nobody is using cryptos for day to day purchases or servicing debt so the fed will remain firmly in control of the money supply and interest rates.

It is much more of a threat as a method of capital flight to undeveloped countries (eg. China) who like robbing their citizens through inflation, currency manipulation, and capital controls.

I think that's a great thing.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#72

Bitcoin and for that matter all crypto currency is a libertarian ideal. Libertarian ideals do not fit in communist societies. Regulation was always coming, as even liberal societies regulate. But regulation is only there to keep the established order. The established order is very afraid of crypto right now in the same way the music industry freaked out over MP3. I can't help it, but I get annoyed when crypto is bran…

So regulations against pollution are only there to keep the established order?

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#73

Bitcoin and for that matter all crypto currency is a libertarian ideal. Libertarian ideals do not fit in communist societies. Regulation was always coming, as even liberal societies regulate. But regulation is only there to keep the established order. The established order is very afraid of crypto right now in the same way the music industry freaked out over MP3. I can't help it, but I get annoyed when crypto is bran…

China is only communist in name. It's a non-liberal capitalist country, with something of a non-universal social safety net.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#74

China will nationalize the domestic miners and treat Bitcoin as a commodity asset that the state controls. I believe this will immediately cause a constriction in supply as those coins will not be sold at least initially on the open market. Look for this messaging to coincide with the pronouncements around the new five-year plan(FYP)[1]. As the first major section of the 13th FYP, innovation is emphasized as a corner…

>China will nationalize the domestic miners and treat Bitcoin as a commodity asset that the state controls

Sounds like a good reason for a fork.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#75
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand the capital flight argument. The Chinese economy has seen overwhelming growth in the past 10 years. If you are searching for yield, it's in China.

The government control in China is a driving force to spread your capital outside. Remember, average citizen can only transfer out $60k per annum. Not much.

Sure, but I can imagine that wealthy western investors also want exposure to growth in China (capital inflows).

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#76
post #26
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you cash out, I'd wait on the laughing.

My "buy in" was a $300 AMD graphics card which I then kept using for games after the mining difficulty was too high. As far as I'm concerned my BTC is an added value. If it crashes to worthlessness I would not care. PS: I have no intention of cashing out. Since BTC is deflationary I'd rather hold till each BTC is worth 100k. Check this thread in 2030 :)

Deflationary does not imply an ever-increasing value. At some point, deflationary commodities will be so rare as to be useless. Lack of supply leads to a lack of velocity, which leads to a lack of liquidity. Once that happens, people will move to a competing product.

Imagine if soy beans gradually went extinct. In the short-term, the prices would spike as companies reliant on soy beans compete for the shrinking supply. But as prices go up, these companies either go bankrupt, or find alternative inputs to replace soy beans. Either way, the prices eventually hit zero before extinction occurs.

The once plentiful and valuable becomes rare and worthless.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#77
post #55
post #15

As soon as I read this, two words came to mind: Capital flight. A growing number of Chinese nationals has been using Bitcoin to siphon money out of China over the past several years.[1][2] Not surprisingly, the Chinese government is cracking down on this innovative form of capital flight. [1] http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1891021-how-chinese-use-bitc... [2] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/markets/chinese-i…

I really don't understand the capital flight argument. The Chinese economy has seen overwhelming growth in the past 10 years. If you are searching for yield, it's in China.

um, where have you been the past 2 years? China's stock market crashed, its forex reserve down 1 trillion, its millionnaires fleeing the country, it has imposed massive (but ineffective) capital control to prevent any money from leaving, its gdp/debt ratio way above 300%, its economy propped up by shadow debts.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#78
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, the opposite is true. Most of the people who are open to Bitcoin live in third-world countries (including myself) and have a natural distrust for government. Also, saying some people "are wrong" is not an argument.

> Most of the people who are open to Bitcoin live in third-world countries (including myself) and have a natural distrust for government. That's an interesting claim. Is there a good Bitcoin use by country breakdown? Because my impression was, that with the notable exception of Brazil, Bitcoin is still mostly the techie-westerners thing. > Also, saying some people "are wrong" is not an argument. That's not an argumen…

> Is there a good Bitcoin use by country breakdown?

No, because you can't effectively track wallets/usage. However, you can, for example, look at Google Trends: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&q=...

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#79
post #15

As soon as I read this, two words came to mind: Capital flight. A growing number of Chinese nationals has been using Bitcoin to siphon money out of China over the past several years.[1][2] Not surprisingly, the Chinese government is cracking down on this innovative form of capital flight. [1] http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1891021-how-chinese-use-bitc... [2] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/markets/chinese-i…

Note that the Chinese government also demanded DVDs of all transaction records at the exchanges. This means that the Chinese citizens who moved their Bitcoin off of the exchange will have to answer to the bean counters.

How could a clever Chinese citizen avoid government scrutiny of their cryptocurrency finances under these conditions? They could trade Yuan (cash) for BTC through an underground mechanism of some sort. The vast majority will already be on the record at the soon to be defunct exchanges.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#80
post #15

As soon as I read this, two words came to mind: Capital flight. A growing number of Chinese nationals has been using Bitcoin to siphon money out of China over the past several years.[1][2] Not surprisingly, the Chinese government is cracking down on this innovative form of capital flight. [1] http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1891021-how-chinese-use-bitc... [2] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/markets/chinese-i…

Part of me believes that an economic crisis on china regarding capital flight could be the next global crisis. If chinese cpaital alone stopped buying property, and caused some plummet in property demand, it alone could cause plenty of waves.

This is already happening in Canadian cities.

They can't make payment on their mortgage.

They can't find a buyer at high prices.

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