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China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

bbc.co.uk

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Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#51

Post by TeMPOraL »

aianus wrote: post #44
TeMPOraL wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> governments want control over money Of course. And for a good reason. People utter this line as if governments wanting control over money was somehow bad . Money, within all human societies that exist or existed, is pretty much synonymous with power. It is the tool that allows an individual to incent, compel and coordinate other people to do what said individual wants. With $1 you can make someone cook you a hot do…

The state by definition has monopoly on violence, not power in general. You don't want a state with total centralized power over the economy because you end up with places like North Korea or the USSR with uncompetitive industry and shortages.

Violence is the most direct way to apply power, but not the only one. "Monopoly on violence" sounds cute, but it's not the precise and only thing the state is supposed to have. What good is a state so disconnected from money that it can't even fund its violence-applying apparatus?

Also: control over money doesn't imply control over markets. As evidenced by pretty much all western countries.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#52

Post by tboyd47 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #31
snitko wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sustainable business case is permissionless nature of Bitcoin. Everything else comes down to it. This talk of blockchain technology being somewhat of a new wonderful invention that's supposed to magically make companies more profitable...? Not so. The reason why Bitcoin exists is because governments want control over money. Bitcoin gives people freedom. Period. Everything else is noise.

> governments want control over money Of course. And for a good reason. People utter this line as if governments wanting control over money was somehow bad . Money, within all human societies that exist or existed, is pretty much synonymous with power. It is the tool that allows an individual to incent, compel and coordinate other people to do what said individual wants. With $1 you can make someone cook you a hot do…

Just wondering - when is it not a good thing for the state to be able to enforce their rules, then? You said "almost always." Specifically referring to money since the topic of conversation is Bitcoin.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#53

Post by snitko »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #50
snitko wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think it's for good reason. Many people think it's for bad reason. Those people invented and developed Bitcoin. Now the people who think state has no business messing with money and private lives of people have an actual tool upon their hands.

I will say those people are wrong, and they're only able to think that because they live in stable societies under rule of law, and have time to criticize somewhat abstract issues like this. Now don't get me wrong - I'm not saying the present balance of power between individual and the state is perfectly placed. But thinking about ditching states altogether is, presently, a pretty dumb idea, that only signals a lack…

In fact, the opposite is true. Most of the people who are open to Bitcoin live in third-world countries (including myself) and have a natural distrust for government.

Also, saying some people "are wrong" is not an argument.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#54

Post by tunetine »

sova wrote: post #16
haburka wrote: post #8

I think this is a really good sign that it's a good idea to get out of crypto currencies. China is actually pretty good at making decisions to defend it's country from negative outside influence. Anywhere that hosts a bitcoin exchange is also hosting criminal activity. Consequently, Bitcoin exchanges are going to make areas more dangerous to live. It's just a bad business decision to allow it to exist in your country…

Many of us analysts who are deep in the game recognize that China is simply shutting them all down to start its own cryptocurrency that (probably) has ID/government name linked to it.

Cite this please.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#55

Post by evbots »

cs702 wrote: post #15

As soon as I read this, two words came to mind: Capital flight. A growing number of Chinese nationals has been using Bitcoin to siphon money out of China over the past several years.[1][2] Not surprisingly, the Chinese government is cracking down on this innovative form of capital flight. [1] http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1891021-how-chinese-use-bitc... [2] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/markets/chinese-i…

I really don't understand the capital flight argument. The Chinese economy has seen overwhelming growth in the past 10 years. If you are searching for yield, it's in China.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#56

Post by TeMPOraL »

tboyd47 wrote: post #52
TeMPOraL wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> governments want control over money Of course. And for a good reason. People utter this line as if governments wanting control over money was somehow bad . Money, within all human societies that exist or existed, is pretty much synonymous with power. It is the tool that allows an individual to incent, compel and coordinate other people to do what said individual wants. With $1 you can make someone cook you a hot do…

Just wondering - when is it not a good thing for the state to be able to enforce their rules, then? You said "almost always." Specifically referring to money since the topic of conversation is Bitcoin.

I was thinking about the cases when the rules are needlessly oppressive. Governments aren't perfect. But they're better than the state of nature.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#57

Post by kharms »

Akujin wrote: post #20
korzun wrote: post #3

But.. but.. an 'analyst' for CoinDesk said this was normal and the exchanges will just need to get a license and China welcome them back with open arms. The bullshit artists that already 'invested' in this scheme will now tell you that China did not matter and the people under them will parrot it. Anybody that disagrees simply doesn't understand Bitcoin or just mad that they could not get on the choo-choo train at th…

Some of us who have been holding since Bitcoin was worth $2 are laughing at you.

I mined up a fair amount in 2009/2010, then lost them all my after computer got fried in a power surge.

If lightning had struck a few houses over, would I have cashed out or held? I suspect I would have cashed out most of them around $1k. Why did you hold?

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#58

Post by eightysixfour »

evbots wrote: post #55
cs702 wrote: post #15

As soon as I read this, two words came to mind: Capital flight. A growing number of Chinese nationals has been using Bitcoin to siphon money out of China over the past several years.[1][2] Not surprisingly, the Chinese government is cracking down on this innovative form of capital flight. [1] http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1891021-how-chinese-use-bitc... [2] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/markets/chinese-i…

I really don't understand the capital flight argument. The Chinese economy has seen overwhelming growth in the past 10 years. If you are searching for yield, it's in China.

The CCP's concern is that once people get wealthy in China, they want to leave China with the money.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#59

Post by TeMPOraL »

mamon wrote: post #49
TeMPOraL wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> governments want control over money Of course. And for a good reason. People utter this line as if governments wanting control over money was somehow bad . Money, within all human societies that exist or existed, is pretty much synonymous with power. It is the tool that allows an individual to incent, compel and coordinate other people to do what said individual wants. With $1 you can make someone cook you a hot do…

This is so wrong that I don't know where to start. First of all, people tend to forget that government is not made of angels. It is made of humans, who are susceptible to the same flaws as the rest of us: greed, hunger for power, etc. Therefore we should try to limit the power government has over us to only basic necessities. Second of all, historically, human societies functioned quite well with multiple competing c…

I agree with the points you made, and yet still I don't think this invalidates the notion that a state needs some level of control over money in order to function.

Re: China orders Bitcoin exchanges in capital city to close

#60

Post by johndevor »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #40
haburka wrote: post #8

I think this is a really good sign that it's a good idea to get out of crypto currencies. China is actually pretty good at making decisions to defend it's country from negative outside influence. Anywhere that hosts a bitcoin exchange is also hosting criminal activity. Consequently, Bitcoin exchanges are going to make areas more dangerous to live. It's just a bad business decision to allow it to exist in your country…

This is a really good point. I live Downtown near a BitCoin ATM. The neighborhood was really posh when I moved in. Since the the BitCoin ATM was installed, home prices are down 25%, crime is WAY UP, and the transient population has exploded. People are talking about moving to Detroit to get away from the general rot and decay of the BitCoin defiled inner city. /s

There's a good argument to be made that crypto ATMs reduce violent crime by taking cash and the drug trade off the streets.
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