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A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

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Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#121

Post by soneca »

stun wrote: post #31
soneca wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He identified a real problem (that part is not hard as no country is short of easily identifiable problems), the problem was he using it as base/narrative to gain more personal power and influence, instead of solving the problem for the country's benefit. The problem with third-world countries is not that the political elite fails to identify problems, it is that they use this to gain more power through populism or t…

Yeah populism in third world counties. What do you call whats happening in the US and Europe.

I don't have an opinion about what's happening in the US and Europe.

Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#122

Post by panarky »

nkoren wrote: post #117
ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of extra profits do you think Coke brings in from the excess consumption from religious rituals of Spiritual Healers? Lets say Chiapas (3.4 million people) has (10% population of Spiritual Healers) = 340,000 Spiritual Leaders. Each spiritual leader will now purchase a 1 Liter coke for a religious ceremony EVERY DAY that they otherwise would not have. Coke costs .73 pesos per liter in Chiapas. 340,000 x .73…

They wouldn't be targeting spiritual healers as consumers -- the number would be far lower than you suggest -- they would be targeting them as the "brand ambassadors" and "thought leaders" within their community. Which is eminently sensible. Evil, but sensible.

When the doctor prescribes Coca Cola to heal you and your family, Coca Cola is no longer just a refreshing but unhealthy treat.

Now it's medicine. Now it's essential for life itself.

So you drink it at breakfast to fortify you for the day ahead. You feed gallons of it to your kids because you love them and want them to be healthy.

Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#123

Post by soneca »

sol_remmy wrote: post #69
stun wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah populism in third world counties. What do you call whats happening in the US and Europe.

In first world countries, populism is often triggered by government overreach. In third world countries, populism is often triggered by promising people finances from government coffers. That is why you see populism in Brazil, Venezuela, etc cause the government to overexpand, grow corrupt, and eventually start to implode. First world countries have self sufficient people who would prefer more freedoms, third world c…

I disagree with this assumption. I believe what differs first and third world countries is the strength of institutions, not the belief of their individual people. There is diversity among developed countries regarding the role of the government, but the similarity is that institutions are more mature and are more respected.

Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#124

Post by what-no-tests »

wyc wrote: post #34

> ...the company has permits for two wells to extract a total of 499,918 cubic meters of water per year, or 499.9 million liters. In 2016, the company extracted 78.8 percent of the permitted total. So the government gave Coke the permits, Coke used under 80% of the agreed amount, and now it's a crisis? It has the markings of some severe utilities planning blunder. > "The city has been growing significantly since the…

> How many people would stop drawing salaries?

Oh of course through wealth redistribution policies. At least until that well runs dry also.

/s

Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#125

Post by corpMaverick »

benjaminl wrote: post #115
corpMaverick wrote: post #53

This article is just exploiting our desire to hate corporations. What ever amount of water Coca-cola is taking it is surely a drop in the bucket compared to other uses of water. More likely it is a problem of water being contaminated for other causes. Chiapas is in the middle of the rainforest. They get 120 inches of rainfall a year. In any case their problem is that they get too much rain.

This is exactly what it is. 1.08 million liters of water, sounds like a lot, but needs to be put into context of other uses of water. Agriculture is one of the biggest uses of water. The average US irrigated farm uses 1.6 [0] acre-feet of water per acre of land. Since 1.08 million liters is ~0.9 acre-feet of water. Coca-Cola is using 319.6 acre-feet of water a year which is equivalent water usage, in average, to an 1…

Thanks to put it in numbers, I didn't know where to start. But I know that I use a LOT more water than what I drink.

Certainly their contribution to obesity is major reason to complain about Coca-Cola.

Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#126

Post by hwillis »

wyc wrote: post #34

> ...the company has permits for two wells to extract a total of 499,918 cubic meters of water per year, or 499.9 million liters. In 2016, the company extracted 78.8 percent of the permitted total. So the government gave Coke the permits, Coke used under 80% of the agreed amount, and now it's a crisis? It has the markings of some severe utilities planning blunder. > "The city has been growing significantly since the…

> So the government gave Coke the permits, Coke used under 80% of the agreed amount, and now it's a crisis? It has the markings of some severe utilities planning blunder.

The government being at fault doesn't change the problem. It's a small city in rural Mexico- you can't expect much. Calling it a "severe utilities planning blunder" implies absolute agency by the local government, which just isn't always true. The government sold a local resource with the expectation that it would be safe and that may have been foolish but we can't tell from the outside in this case. Take examples of Polynesian islands being strip-converted into farmland as the inhabitants sell to corporations. The natives were one step above tribal, and had no idea that would collapse the local ecosystem, and they're now forced to import all their food. It destroyed their health and economy- that wasn't a "severe utilities planning blunder", they were directly taken advantage of.

It's pretty clear that Coca-Cola is deeply entwined with Mexican governance at all levels, so it probably doesn't even make sense to blame the government. Coke may very well be making all the choices, when former presidents of coke become presidents of the country.

> There are a lot of questions. Would things would actually get better if Coke were to shut down operations? How many people would stop drawing salaries? How much tax revenue loss does the government face with halted operations?

Those are mostly strawmen- the choice isn't binary. A Pigovian tax maximizes value to everyone. A good question is whether that would be sufficient, but I get the impression from the article that most people think it would. Since that region is the biggest water source in Mexico you'd think they have at least a little extra water.

Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#127

Post by LyndsySimon »

quickben wrote: post #62
panarky wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coke is huge in this part of Chiapas, especially in indigenous areas. I was there last spring, and my guide said Coca-Cola bribed the village curanderos (spiritual healers) to increase the consumption of Coke, so they incorporated it into religious rituals [0]. The water isn't safe to drink, and Coke can be cheaper than milk or formula, so many moms feed their babies Coke instead [1]. The point is, when the megacorp…

> The water isn't safe to drink, and Coke can be cheaper than milk or formula, so many moms feed their babies Coke instead [1]. So, the unsafe water, gets treated, margin added and still cheaper as coke than local drinkable water. Not sure what to say at this.

On its face, it seems like it cannot be true.

The main ingredient in Coca-Cola is filtered water. If Coke is cheaper than water in these communities, then why isn't the company selling bottled water for the same price? Their bottling and distribution costs would be the same, while the cost of ingredients would decrease.

It makes no economic sense for Coca-Cola to not sell bottled water in this context. Lacking an economic motive, what's left? Is the assertion that Coca-Cola is actively malevolent and is using their economic power to harm people on purpose at their own expense?

Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#128

Post by LyndsySimon »

Spooky23 wrote: post #94
artursapek wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does coca-cola charge for breast milk over there?

You probably haven't lactated. It's not that simple -- once a baby accepts formula, it's nearly impossible to breast feed. That's a big reason why breastmilk companies are ready, willing and eager to "help" with sample product. Hell, somehow two of those companies were able to estimate the birthdate that our child would have likely had if my wife hadn't miscarried early. They go to the expense of mailing 10 lb boxes…

> once a baby accepts formula, it's nearly impossible to breast feed.

I'm male, but I'm a parent and remember dealing with this stuff.

In addition to difficulty getting the baby to latch after feeding formula very early, there's also the issue of building and maintaining supply. The first few days of life are important for both mother and baby - there isn't a lot of milk being produced at first, and the child's attempts at nursing encourage milk production to begin in earnest. The natural course is that the mother's milk comes in to meet the baby's growing need. If you "skip" a day or two in the beginning, even if you get the kid to latch there isn't going to be enough milk to satisfy them. This leads to supplementing with formula, which in turn solidifies difficulty latching and further delays milk production.

I remember having to be very firm with hospital staff to under no circumstances feed our first daughter formula. In the first couple of days they really pushed us to, justifying it by saying "Momma needs her rest!" and "Dad should experience feeding the baby, too." We had a good experience overall with both our children, but in both cases I had to really take command of the situation to ensure that our wishes were followed. In a couple of cases that was even "against medical advice".

Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#129

Post by snambi »

wyc wrote: post #34

> ...the company has permits for two wells to extract a total of 499,918 cubic meters of water per year, or 499.9 million liters. In 2016, the company extracted 78.8 percent of the permitted total. So the government gave Coke the permits, Coke used under 80% of the agreed amount, and now it's a crisis? It has the markings of some severe utilities planning blunder. > "The city has been growing significantly since the…

It is easier to convince(or bribe) the government officials and get the permission. The govt is too dumb or weak or corrupt. Later it is easier to blame the govt.

Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#130

Post by LyndsySimon »

rbanffy wrote: post #76
pdog wrote: post #33

Water is a scarce resource. A market system is the objectively the best mechanism for allocating scarce resources. (Of course, if you object to a pure market system, the government can regulate the market and subsidize residential tap water.) Why isn't water priced accordingly?

> Why isn't water priced accordingly? Are you OK with your family dying of thirst if you can't pay for water?

It beats my family dying of thirst because of government policy - enforced by legions of armed agents, if necessary - prevents my access to it.

If the price of water is artificially set below market value, then demand is higher and supply is lower than it would otherwise be. If it costs $3 / gallon to transport water to where I live, and the government sets the price of water at $2 / gallon, guess what? No one transports water to where I live. Without that intervention, water might cost $4 / gallon, but at least it's available.

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