Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#281

Post by sannee » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 3:05 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #158

anythingnonidin wrote: post #21

Some reasons for decriminalization of use and possession, summarized: (i.e., removing criminal penalties or making it no jail time possible, but not government supplied) - War on drugs has failed. Criminalization has consequences on community - in many cases, most of the negative effects come from the criminalization, not the drug. - Consensual crimes that don’t harm others shouldn’t be crimes. - Drug prohibition doe…

>Criminalization has consequences on community Mass addiction has consequences on community. > Consensual crimes that don’t harm others shouldn’t be crimes People who self-destruct rarely do so in a vacuum. The community, and specifically their families, are harmed. Just look at what addiction as a public health crisis is doing to the places ravaged by opioid abuse. > Drug war enforcement costs a ton A drugged out, n…

> A drugged out, non-productive population costs a ton.

Is the only reason you are not using opiates at the moment the fact that it is illegal to do so?

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#282

Post by fifnir » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 3:08 PM UTC

coleifer wrote: post #250

rublev wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video games costs money. When you've got a habit and no job, how are you going to pay? People steal to support their habits. Little children have their childhood stolen because their parents were always gaming. People crash cars and kill people because their attention is on their little screen. That's why video games should be illegal. You can do this with literally anything.

That's patently absurd. You're not likely to see a gamer out there ripping and robbing to support a habit. Do people get addicted to games? Food? Sex? Whatever? Yeah sure. But by far drugs lead to more crime.

And ILLEGAL drugs lead to crime much easier than legal one since you need to socialize with (sometimes) criminals to get your stuff.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#283

Post by fifnir » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 3:09 PM UTC

tertius wrote: post #261

rublev wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video games costs money. When you've got a habit and no job, how are you going to pay? People steal to support their habits. Little children have their childhood stolen because their parents were always gaming. People crash cars and kill people because their attention is on their little screen. That's why video games should be illegal. You can do this with literally anything.

> You can do this with literally anything. Yes you can. But the evidence shows that crime related to supporting a drug habit actually exists compared to a Facebook habit. Addiction comes in many flavors. Gaming addiction don't add substances to your body that your body cannot produce and regulate by itself.

I wonder what would happen if wow subscriptions became illegal and the only way to get one more month of the stuff is to find a "guy"

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#284

Post by coleifer » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 3:11 PM UTC

posixplz wrote: post #268

coleifer wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's patently absurd. You're not likely to see a gamer out there ripping and robbing to support a habit. Do people get addicted to games? Food? Sex? Whatever? Yeah sure. But by far drugs lead to more crime.

Drugs do not lead to crime. Desperation and opportunity, the need to survive, with a lack of morality, all directly lead to crime. Drugs do not make people commit crimes. Emotions, those mental states, do however. What we need, as a country, society, and human race is to recognize the importance of treatment of the mind above all else. Reduce suffering. Sure, there will always be a degree of sadness in life, we shoul…

I don't see a lot of clinically depressed people sticking guns in people's faces. Nor do I think lack of morality has anything to do with addiction.

Rather than treat the mind, I believe in treating the spirit.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#285

Post by lightbyte » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 3:14 PM UTC

justonepost wrote: post #46

fsloth wrote: post #5

Finally. I hope this will signal a turning point on this insane approach to national health in all countries. Drugs are a health problem, not a criminal problem. Lone experts have been fired in western countries when they have expressed this common sense sentiments alone [0]. I hope this groups fares better. Nixon started the war on drugs anyway as a mean to attack left and black activists [1]. Any previous legislati…

Depends on your goal. If it's to reduce mortality, yes, decriminalize is good. But it will increase usage.

Why does it matter if usage is increased?

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#286

Post by Ajedi32 » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 3:15 PM UTC

otakucode wrote: post #201

Drugs were not made illegal because they're bad for your health and they don't remain illegal because they're bad for your health. Poisons are generally not illegal. Drugs are illegal because they make people feel good or make them happy which offends the Protestant Work Ethic. The Protestant Work Ethic says that the only legitimate route to happiness is through physically difficult labor which causes you to suffer.…

The reason drugs are illegal is because they are addictive. Many of them so addictive, in fact, that they can easily suck you in and destroy your life even if you resolve to only try them "just once". Some drugs like tobacco and alcohol are less addictive than most and are therefore still legal, others like whereas others like heroin are more addictive and are therefore banned.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#287

Post by lightbyte » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 3:16 PM UTC

coleifer wrote: post #250

rublev wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video games costs money. When you've got a habit and no job, how are you going to pay? People steal to support their habits. Little children have their childhood stolen because their parents were always gaming. People crash cars and kill people because their attention is on their little screen. That's why video games should be illegal. You can do this with literally anything.

That's patently absurd. You're not likely to see a gamer out there ripping and robbing to support a habit. Do people get addicted to games? Food? Sex? Whatever? Yeah sure. But by far drugs lead to more crime.

If we made videogames illegal you definitely would see people doing just that.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#288

Post by amigoingtodie » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 3:18 PM UTC

bighi wrote: post #271

watty wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand - why would cheap/free drugs prevent gun battles, car break ins or OD'ing? As far as I'm aware, junkies still need money to eat/sleep/drink and very few have a reliable source of income. All gun battles aren't over drugs, and would still occur. And not all overdoses are caused by tainted drugs.

Give them free drugs. It's overall cheaper. It's safer for him and you . Reduces crime, which saves money on police. And if drugs are cheap to most, and free to some, there's no huge profit to be made by illegally selling them. Thus, no gun fights over distribution spots on the streets.

The US does this now if you meet maximum income requirements.

The problem is the people with free drugs selling them to people that cannot obtain them free.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#289

Post by pitaj » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 3:19 PM UTC

tertius wrote: post #269

II2II wrote: post #247

While I support the decriminalizing of drugs, I also have to question how effective it would be if all drugs were decriminalized and became highly regulated. Example 1: prescription drugs are highly regulated, yet their legal availability has not stopped criminal activities surrounding the illegal trade. Legalizing may solve some social issues relating to the war on drugs, but not all. Example 2: alcohol is legal, ea…

> do we really want to regulate self-harm? In the worst cases we do: Euthanasia. Drinking under 21: We do. Marijuana use under 25: We should.

I don't. I think drinking age should be 18, and kids should be allowed to drink with their parents. I think marijuana should be the same way. I think assisted suicide should be allowed (euthanasia is different).

I think every drug, even prescription medicines, should be totally legal to possess, distribute, sell, and buy.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#290

Post by webnrrd2k » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 3:23 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #130

icantdrive55 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Many, even the ethical, doctors prescribed opioids for pain, and misery. 2. A very small percentage of Doctors set up shop to hook their patients. 3. I just can't put all the blame on doctors. 4. People are miserable across this county. A lot of you are insulated from the misery, but it's there. The anti-drpepressant effects of opioids should not be hidden. They make you feel good. Plus--I don't think it's a coinc…

US doctors are prescribing far more opioids that doctors in any other country. The US uses 99% of the world supply of hydrocodone, for example. The opioid crisis is far worse in the US than in any other country. > I don't think it's a coincidence that heterocyclic/tricyclic anti-depressants have come under extreme scrutiny. Basically--do they even work. Oh yea, that double blind study, in India, proved they work 62%…

Re: over prescribing antidepressants (and various other medications), I think there is a real problem in America with getting an accurate diagnosis in the first place, which contributes to the overprescription problem. Also, most people are limited to a very small slice of office time, and I imagine that makes an accurate diagnosis difficult, too. In addition, American culture reinforces individualism, and tends to be isolating relative to many other cultures, which, I'm sure, contributes to the problem.

This all just reinforces your larger point that US healthcare is not very good for very many people. It's great if you have the money (or insurance) to see whoever you need to, but not so good if you don't.