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A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

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Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#71

Post by bzbarsky »

bpicolo wrote: post #40
3pt14159 wrote: post #39

Water is a tricky thing. Take almonds for example. One almond takes about 4 liters of water to produce. With 1.6 billion pounds of almonds grown per year we're looking at almost 2.5 trillion liters of water. This is just one nut. Pistachios and walnuts use similar amounts of water, so do other things we eat like broccoli. I blame Coca-Cola and their ilk for the obesity epidemic, but water shortages are more caused by…

> One almond takes about 4 liters of water to produce How long does it take for that water to re-enter the ecosystem in a usable way? Water isn't just destroyed, yeah? Water planning is definitely worthwhile, but seems there are a few other variables in play.

> How long does it take for that water to re-enter the ecosystem in a usable way?

It depends on where you got the water from. If you got it from a river or lake, probably "until the next time it rains". If you got it from an aquifer, then it depends on how long it takes water to filter down into the aquifer, assuming it can do so at all.

> Water isn't just destroyed, yeah?

In the case of aquifers it actually can be, effectively. Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquifer#Human_dependence_on_gr... second paragraph:

  Fresh-water aquifers, especially those with limited recharge by
  snow or rain, also known as meteoric water, can be over-exploited
  and depending on the local hydrogeology, may draw in non-potable
  water or saltwater intrusion from hydraulically connected aquifers
  or surface water bodies. This can be a serious problem, especially
  in coastal areas and other areas where aquifer pumping is excessive.
  In some areas, the ground water can become contaminated by arsenic
  and other mineral poisons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer#Aquifer_water... is a worthwhile read with specific numbers for a specific aquifer that illustrates some of the possible problems.

All of which is to say that in some places (and in particular in much of the Western US) water may closer to a non-renewable resource than a renewable one if it comes from an aquifer. At least on years-to-decades timescales.

Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#73

Post by mcguire »

bpicolo wrote: post #40
3pt14159 wrote: post #39

Water is a tricky thing. Take almonds for example. One almond takes about 4 liters of water to produce. With 1.6 billion pounds of almonds grown per year we're looking at almost 2.5 trillion liters of water. This is just one nut. Pistachios and walnuts use similar amounts of water, so do other things we eat like broccoli. I blame Coca-Cola and their ilk for the obesity epidemic, but water shortages are more caused by…

> One almond takes about 4 liters of water to produce How long does it take for that water to re-enter the ecosystem in a usable way? Water isn't just destroyed, yeah? Water planning is definitely worthwhile, but seems there are a few other variables in play.

Most is lost to evaporation, which rains out in a relatively short time somewhere else. The problem is that the water used frequently comes from either groundwater, leaving users downstream with a deficit, or deep aquifers, which take a very long time to recharge.

Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#74

Post by dashundchen »

stun wrote: post #37
ams6110 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't think you can put Hugh Chávez into any argument about making the world a better place. Venezuela is a disaster, and the human suffering is inexcusable.

Yeah its Chavez's fault. No mention of sanctions, sanctions. The people who are obsessed with sanctions don't care about the humantarian impact as long as they get what they want.

On a related note, the Trump administration exempted Venezuelan state owned oil company Citgo from the recent round of American sanctions.

Citgo happens to employ former Trump campaign advisors as lobbyists.

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/348007-trump-ex...

Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#75

Post by rbanffy »

stun wrote: post #68
js8 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is talking about a policy, not Chavez. The fact that lot of Chavez's policies were disastrous doesn't mean this one in particular was bad.

The disastrous policies. Could you name them?. Before he died, as afar as i know, Venezuela was getting on just fine. Whats disastrous is Maduro much like the one running the US. Both stupid

It's frequently pointed out Chávez didn't invest as much in modernizing PDVSA and production eventually fell. As oil prices crashed, the reduced production became a problem as it can't be expanded quickly enough without substantial investments.

But this is what I heard from an analyst and we must consider some information loss because this is far from my core expertise.

Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#76

Post by rbanffy »

pdog wrote: post #33

Water is a scarce resource. A market system is the objectively the best mechanism for allocating scarce resources. (Of course, if you object to a pure market system, the government can regulate the market and subsidize residential tap water.) Why isn't water priced accordingly?

> Why isn't water priced accordingly?

Are you OK with your family dying of thirst if you can't pay for water?

Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#77

Post by bzbarsky »

Alex3917 wrote: post #44
3pt14159 wrote: post #39

Water is a tricky thing. Take almonds for example. One almond takes about 4 liters of water to produce. With 1.6 billion pounds of almonds grown per year we're looking at almost 2.5 trillion liters of water. This is just one nut. Pistachios and walnuts use similar amounts of water, so do other things we eat like broccoli. I blame Coca-Cola and their ilk for the obesity epidemic, but water shortages are more caused by…

> Pistachios and walnuts use similar amounts of water, so do other things we eat like broccoli. What does this really mean though? In New England we have Walnut trees growing everywhere, and no one is watering them. If anything they're locking water into the soil that would otherwise just evaporate.

Looking at https://www.weather.gov/nerfc/normals it looks like you'd be hard-pressed to find places in New England that averages less than, say, 30" of rain a year.

Problems start when people grow walnuts in places that average 10" a year....

Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#78

Post by hackermailman »

panarky wrote: post #51
wyc wrote: post #34

> ...the company has permits for two wells to extract a total of 499,918 cubic meters of water per year, or 499.9 million liters. In 2016, the company extracted 78.8 percent of the permitted total. So the government gave Coke the permits, Coke used under 80% of the agreed amount, and now it's a crisis? It has the markings of some severe utilities planning blunder. > "The city has been growing significantly since the…

Coke is huge in this part of Chiapas, especially in indigenous areas. I was there last spring, and my guide said Coca-Cola bribed the village curanderos (spiritual healers) to increase the consumption of Coke, so they incorporated it into religious rituals [0]. The water isn't safe to drink, and Coke can be cheaper than milk or formula, so many moms feed their babies Coke instead [1]. The point is, when the megacorp…

In that article it was locals who got the witch doctor frauds to switch from bootleg alcohol to cola in their cermonies, so no direct link from that plant to them. It's local middlemen screwing over their own people and those criminal "healers" who now make more money from patients because it's easier and cheaper to obtain sodas than it is to make and sell alcohol. For sure a bad situation but if sodas weren't around they'd be drinking booze again and milk would still be too expensive, the water still undrinkable.

If you want to hold somebody accountable start with the guys peddling phony healing for dollars then move up from there to whoever is politically in charge of that region letting it go to shit, not hiring engineers and planners but instead cronies, and pocketing the rest of the federal money transfers. https://growthlab.cid.harvard.edu/publications/why-chiapas-p...

Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#79

Post by mcguire »

bzbarsky wrote: post #71
bpicolo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One almond takes about 4 liters of water to produce How long does it take for that water to re-enter the ecosystem in a usable way? Water isn't just destroyed, yeah? Water planning is definitely worthwhile, but seems there are a few other variables in play.

> How long does it take for that water to re-enter the ecosystem in a usable way? It depends on where you got the water from. If you got it from a river or lake, probably "until the next time it rains". If you got it from an aquifer, then it depends on how long it takes water to filter down into the aquifer, assuming it can do so at all. > Water isn't just destroyed, yeah? In the case of aquifers it actually can be,…

An interesting case is the state of Georgia, which periodically makes nose about disputing its boundaries with Alabama and Tennessee, in order to move the boundary far enough to access the water of the Tennessee River. It has been many years since the lakes and resovoirs in northern Georgia have been "full" and I believe the Atlanta metropolitan area users more water normally than it recovers from rain.

Re: A Coca-Cola plant in Mexico uses 1.08M liters of water per day as wells dry up

#80

Post by pstuart »

wyc wrote: post #34

> ...the company has permits for two wells to extract a total of 499,918 cubic meters of water per year, or 499.9 million liters. In 2016, the company extracted 78.8 percent of the permitted total. So the government gave Coke the permits, Coke used under 80% of the agreed amount, and now it's a crisis? It has the markings of some severe utilities planning blunder. > "The city has been growing significantly since the…

> So the government gave Coke the permits, Coke used under 80% of the agreed amount, and now it's a crisis? It has the markings of some severe utilities planning blunder.

Do you think the government acting for the people made the agreement or a government official(s) accepted bribes to make it happen. Hmmmmmmm....

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