Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Florida Power and Light: Regulations for home solar installations

fpl.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 180 posts

Re: Florida Power and Light: Regulations for home solar installations

#111

Post by [deleted] »

noxToken wrote: post #107
wallace_f wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the article they mention that this probably wouldn't happen, and only became an issue because the utility forced homeowners to connect to the grid. In Australia lots of people have off-grid systems. You just switch b/w the two.

From elsewhere in the thread: > From what I gathered in reading the three articles there's a state code that mandates that homes must be hooked up to the electrical grid. With out seeing the law or it's history (e.g. when it was mandated), it's difficult to say if it's malice on the part of utilities or just a poorly worded law from 50 years ago. Electricity is regulated, like water, because it's something people hav…

[deleted]

Re: Florida Power and Light: Regulations for home solar installations

#112

Post by chiph »

xenophonf wrote: post #98

In Africa we've built small home/lab/datacenter power systems that charge a battery bank off utility mains plus on-site generation. It's basically a gigantic UPS that can automatically switch among a variety of power inputs. What's stopping someone from building something like that here in the U.S.? Charge batteries from solar, supplement with mains power, maybe even add a diesel generator for extreme emergencies, an…

If the system is technically correct (won't back-feed power into the network because it has a transfer switch) it's a licensing and regulatory issue. In this case, Florida Power & Light objects to systems like this and won't certify them.

Re: Florida Power and Light: Regulations for home solar installations

#113

Post by radisb »

martinald wrote: post #79

TBH I think it makes sense that all houses should be connected to the electrical grid. Just like all houses should have proper sanitation facilities. This is a small edge case for people who want to be self sufficient even though it makes no economic sense, as FPL does have net metering in place. If they didn't have net metering in place I'd understand this, but considering they do and at first glance looks like a ve…

In FL, would it be illegal if I installed solar panels and just charged a large battery, never connecting it to the grid?

Is it illegal to even just own a solar panel that is not connected to the grid?

Re: Florida Power and Light: Regulations for home solar installations

#114

Post by OwlsParliament »

philplckthun wrote: post #105
ams6110 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds reasonable but the way to do this is with a device called a transfer switch. It's used on any proper installation of local power such as a home generator. When the utility power is out, the transfer switch cuts over to local power. There is no feedback to the outside power lines; the transfer switch disconnects them. Are home generators illegal also?

Seems like requiring such a switch would have been a more reasonable regulation in this case. Isn't this already legally required in other countries, when feeding power back into the grid? > Are home generators illegal also? If the quote is accurate then they are not: "Renewable generator systems". So why does it make a difference to law makers? This sounds utterly bonkers

Presumably it matters to lawmakers because they've been paid to neuter solar panel systems.

Re: Florida Power and Light: Regulations for home solar installations

#115

Post by awful »

manarth wrote: post #19
oconnore wrote: post #8

The article is trying so hard it's hard to tell what the actual issue is. It is dangerous to backfeed the grid -- you may kill the line worker coming to fix a blown transformer or downed line. In some places a grid connection is considered necessary by the building code. If so, you must use proper equipment.

The same state rules require a breaker-switch on the solar panel feed, disconnecting it from the grid [1]. However, customers are not allowed to use that switch - it's for FPL use only. [1] http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-18/florida-you-cant-us...

So add another switch before this switch, inside the house maybe, so you can switch it on or off. I read (some) of the FPL rules about this and nowhere did it say you cannot do this, it simply says so that the electrical workers can shut it off to the grid from outside, if necessary.

Re: Florida Power and Light: Regulations for home solar installations

#116

Post by _dingus »

philplckthun wrote: post #105
ams6110 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds reasonable but the way to do this is with a device called a transfer switch. It's used on any proper installation of local power such as a home generator. When the utility power is out, the transfer switch cuts over to local power. There is no feedback to the outside power lines; the transfer switch disconnects them. Are home generators illegal also?

Seems like requiring such a switch would have been a more reasonable regulation in this case. Isn't this already legally required in other countries, when feeding power back into the grid? > Are home generators illegal also? If the quote is accurate then they are not: "Renewable generator systems". So why does it make a difference to law makers? This sounds utterly bonkers

That's literally exactly what the rule is asking for. See (4)(c) here https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?ID=25-6.065

Re: Florida Power and Light: Regulations for home solar installations

#117

Post by quickthrower2 »

grecy wrote: post #86
dundercoder wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7kw? Amazing! How large is the array? (sq ft) How much did that set him back?

In Australia 5kw is extremely common (20 250 watt panels) - out of pocket it's ~$5000 AUD. Now that 280 watt panels are becoming common, up to 7kw is a "standard" install.

But you need three phase to go beyond 5kw if I understand correctly

Re: Florida Power and Light: Regulations for home solar installations

#118

Post by jackemupguy2 »

Wait ... all that is says is that if you back feed into the grid, that you have to have a system shut-off. That's common in all southern states as far as I know? It's basically to protect utility workers that are working on electricity in the area so they don't kill themselves. It makes perfect sense and they have the ability to come in and turn your power off, naturally when doing so. Am I missing something?

Re: Florida Power and Light: Regulations for home solar installations

#119

Post by jackemupguy2 »

oconnore wrote: post #8

The article is trying so hard it's hard to tell what the actual issue is. It is dangerous to backfeed the grid -- you may kill the line worker coming to fix a blown transformer or downed line. In some places a grid connection is considered necessary by the building code. If so, you must use proper equipment.

Exactly, my point too. If you back feed, you usually get like 3.5c for each kwh you produce. The only problem is you generally pay 3x that to purchase when you are required to use electricity (et al. cloudy day). The shut-off thing is just common sense "don't kill they neighbor" doctrine.

Re: Florida Power and Light: Regulations for home solar installations

#120

Post by wallace_f »

emodendroket wrote: post #78
wallace_f wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know the historical justification for legitimate government rule is social contract theory -- hand over some of your rights to protect the remainder of them. There is some debate about how this should play out in the real world. Technically, solar panels, batteries, ovens, etc all can catch on fire and cause my neighbors to as well. Should we ban all of them? Sometimes what we do is to try to protect righ…

> Technically, solar panels, batteries, ovens, etc all can catch on fire and cause my neighbors to as well. Should we ban all of them? Maybe not, but there are lots of regulations on how they have to be made and installed and I think that's quite reasonable. > But I think what we can see here is that if there is no potential in one harming another's rights, there's no legitimate reason for government to get involved.…

You are entitled to disagree me with me and take the opposite stance: that government should get involved in our lives even when what we are doing does not affect another's rights.
Post reply on HN