Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#191

Post by Synaesthesia » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:28 AM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #144

Synaesthesia wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stimulants can be pretty dangerous TBH. I don’t think class a drugs should just go on sale, but I don’t think people should be locked up for them. Baby steps.

The problem is that for a lot of these drugs the greatest harm comes from the lack quality control and regulation of sale. Not just because it results in drugs getting cut with all kinds of shit, and people being sold the wrong thing (e.g. selling heavily cut fentanyl instead of heroin), but also because of a the race to find alternatives that slip through cracks. A great deal of modern drugs only exists to circumven…

Yes but even the pure, quality drugs like adderall, which is really amphetamine can be dangerous.

For opiates, especially people injecting, it is very inportant to get clean drugs, and actually opiates are not particularly harmful to the body if used correctly. They also don’t really present a threat to society if given the drug. Holland has provided addicts with heroin with great success, as a form of treatment.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#192

Post by pseud0r » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:31 AM UTC

blauditore wrote: post #81

Honest question: How would decriminalization of drugs work in practice? Would it be legal to e.g. import and sell cristal meth in stores? What about cheap self-made alcohol that might contain dangerous stuff like methanol; where do you draw the line?

legalization = regulation

Alcohol regulation obviously wouldn't change

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#193

Post by runesoerensen » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:33 AM UTC

It's worth noting that this article is from March 2016 (e.g. before the UN failed to course correct at UNGASS 2016), and that this and many other efforts have failed already.

There are some related discussions in this thread from last year after UNGASS: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12601956#12602296

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#194

Post by enord » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:33 AM UTC

alexasmyths wrote: post #176

enord wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you've never dealt with a dealer before.

I've known many a dealer in my lifetime, and a distant family member who spent some time incarcerated for 'high level' activity, who gives me long tales of how the business works as well. Dealers don't assault, endanger or attack random customers who just stop buying. That's totally absurd, and that someone would suggest it - indicates that they are getting their information from Netflix/Hollywood films or something,…

Well exuse me, I didn't know i was talking to a renneissance man. Addicts wheel and deal with each other, rack up debts to eachother, steal from one another. Some of them buy wholesale from larger distributors, usually with credit, to be repaid with interest or else. They rob, assault, rape and kill eachother over this stuff. I wish i was making this up.

Doctors in emergency rooms usually have instructions to confiscate any illegal drugs they discover on OD-patients, but are faced with the very real dilemma of leaving the patient at their creditors mercy. This can cause real harm (as in "First do no harm") to the patient and their prospects of recovery or harm reduction.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#195

Post by chrisan » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:37 AM UTC

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #179

katastic wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're living in a strange culture of over optimism that thinks if we just magically change certain systems "literally everyone will be better." No. Heroin users aren't going to magically become productive members of society just because we legalize heroin.

Maybe not, but the heroin addicts will no longer have to resort to robberies and other crime in order to fund their addictions, and it will become easier to offer them help and treatment.

> the heroin addicts will no longer have to resort to robberies and other crime in order to fund their addictions

How does decriminalization of the possession and use lead to increased money for addicts that they will no longer have to resort to illegal acts to fund addictions?

Less jail/court fees = more money in pocket to buy drugs?

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#196

Post by dood » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:40 AM UTC

firmgently wrote: post #105

blubb-fish wrote: post #82

Here in Germany politicians are still stating that Cannabis is a gateway drug, causes psychosis and makes stupid. They will even actively lie and twist statistics. My theory for why many politicians - especially from the right-wing - are so opposed is b/c they didn't like their weed smoking and long-haired fellow students. It's a Pavlov thing. Like many people dislike golf (justly so in my humble opinion) b/c they di…

That may be part of it but (at least here in the UK) the bigger factor is votes. The increasingly-shrinking (the most recent general election being an exception) voter demographic has a large overlap with the hysterical "lock 'em all up" authoritarian demographic. Legalisation of drugs is political suicide. When the UK gov's drugs advisor advised that drugs should be legal they sacked him.

I don't think it is even authoritarianism, we've become stuck in a strange cycle - people think drug use needs to be treated criminally because that is what they've been told for decades, and politicians keep repeating the falsehood because that's what people expect to hear. Neither voters nor politicians are even thinking about it, both just react as they've been conditioned to by the other. It'll take something dramatic to break out of this bizarre self-perpetuating cycle.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#197

Post by alexasmyths » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:40 AM UTC

enord wrote: post #194

alexasmyths wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've known many a dealer in my lifetime, and a distant family member who spent some time incarcerated for 'high level' activity, who gives me long tales of how the business works as well. Dealers don't assault, endanger or attack random customers who just stop buying. That's totally absurd, and that someone would suggest it - indicates that they are getting their information from Netflix/Hollywood films or something,…

Well exuse me, I didn't know i was talking to a renneissance man. Addicts wheel and deal with each other, rack up debts to eachother, steal from one another. Some of them buy wholesale from larger distributors, usually with credit, to be repaid with interest or else. They rob, assault, rape and kill eachother over this stuff. I wish i was making this up. Doctors in emergency rooms usually have instructions to confisc…

If you don't pay your dealer, that will cause pain, and possibly violence.

But nobody is 'going after' someone who just decided to stop smoking something.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#198

Post by dood » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:49 AM UTC

heavenlyblue wrote: post #187

firmgently wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be part of it but (at least here in the UK) the bigger factor is votes. The increasingly-shrinking (the most recent general election being an exception) voter demographic has a large overlap with the hysterical "lock 'em all up" authoritarian demographic. Legalisation of drugs is political suicide. When the UK gov's drugs advisor advised that drugs should be legal they sacked him.

It's interesting though how informally liberal UK is about drugs, at the same time.

The drug system in the UK is quite funny - the politicians pretend drug use needs to be treated criminally, the police pretend to enforce drug laws, and the voting public are satisfied with the status quo because if they dislike drugs they can buy into the pretense, if they like drugs they can mostly use them without much bother, and if they are indifferent to drugs they have better things to worry about.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#199

Post by enord » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:54 AM UTC

alexasmyths wrote: post #197

enord wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well exuse me, I didn't know i was talking to a renneissance man. Addicts wheel and deal with each other, rack up debts to eachother, steal from one another. Some of them buy wholesale from larger distributors, usually with credit, to be repaid with interest or else. They rob, assault, rape and kill eachother over this stuff. I wish i was making this up. Doctors in emergency rooms usually have instructions to confisc…

If you don't pay your dealer, that will cause pain, and possibly violence. But nobody is 'going after' someone who just decided to stop smoking something.

Maybe if that someone was just smoking pot and otherwise paid taxes. This particular group of drug users are not the central point of concern of the UN Special Assembly, even though its part of the wider problem. They are not dying in the streets and they are not socially marginalized. Allthough (anecdotally) i've known several fumb pot-smoking ducks who thought they could finance their proclivity through distribution and wound up several thousand dollars in debt to people who take names and chew bubble-gum.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#200

Post by transverse » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:56 AM UTC

Instead of drugs, I think we could ban fried chicken and watermelon exceeding a diameter of three inches. It would be more effective for the goals the government has in mind. Fried chicken is well, fried, and a large watermelon can be used to hit someone and cause head injury.