Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#181

Post by arielb1 » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:06 AM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #153

DanBC wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country are you talking about? This treatment plan for a person with borderlinePD is likely to cause harm. > where the psychologist practices Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (as CBT is the only government-approved therapy), which has no affect CBT is a short form therapy, normally about 8 weeks. Do not use brief psychological interventions of less than 3 months. https://www.nice.org.uk/donotdo/do-not-use-brief-psy…

I don't know whether you or the person you're replying to is more correct, but it doesn't change their point: That these decisions are not something the average person should be making for themselves. If anything, your disagreement kind of makes the point even clearer. Maybe there might be an argument for people to be able to choose to obtain drugs like the ones mentioned by GP, but not without some kind of control-m…

But these are "customer protection" laws, which are intended to make sure people are informed and to make it reasonable to shop in the street, not to protect against people who intentionally try to break them.

They are easily opted out of - they won't prevent you from e.g. buying whatever you want from China, and that's by design. There's no point in protecting a customer that doesn't want your protection.

As opposed to drug laws, which are designed to make drugs hard and dangerous to buy, even if you really want them.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#182

Post by Yaggo » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:08 AM UTC

I like how 'drug' can refer to both medicin and non-medical substances in English. In Finnish, they are two separate words.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#183

Post by sooheon » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:09 AM UTC

kaffeemitsahne wrote: post #166

blubb-fish wrote: post #82

Here in Germany politicians are still stating that Cannabis is a gateway drug, causes psychosis and makes stupid. They will even actively lie and twist statistics. My theory for why many politicians - especially from the right-wing - are so opposed is b/c they didn't like their weed smoking and long-haired fellow students. It's a Pavlov thing. Like many people dislike golf (justly so in my humble opinion) b/c they di…

Cannibis can cause psychosis in some people, just type "cannabis psychosis" into google scholar. The common rebuttal against this is "those people were vulnerable to psychosis from the get-go", but what does that mean when, without cannabis use, those persons might have gone their whole lives without a psychotic episode? Edit: if you carefully read my post you might notice I'm not saying cannabis should be illegal.

So? Any action you take (including doing nothing) can have negative consequences. As long as it doesn't spontaneous cause psychosis in bystanders, let em smoke some pot.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#184

Post by occultist_throw » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:10 AM UTC

alexasmyths wrote: post #98

ekianjo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But it will increase usage. Not necessarily. When people really want something they will eventually find a way to get it anyway, it's not because you criminalize it that its usage drops. Just like IP infringement has not significantly dropped since they can put people in jail for it.

"Not necessarily. When people really want something they will eventually find a way to get it anyway," No, not true at all. Supply and Demand. The 'cost' of doing drugs in society right now is pretty dam high. Social stigma, the possibility of going to jail, various professional licences lost. The 'free market price' of synthetic heroin and other drugs would be as cheap as sugar. Walk down to the local store and buy…

Yes, we should make people suffer, cause "Moral Panic" reasons.

I really hope you have to go through the tremendously painful surgery, and get those "3 pills".

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#185

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:11 AM UTC

sooheon wrote: post #183

kaffeemitsahne wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannibis can cause psychosis in some people, just type "cannabis psychosis" into google scholar. The common rebuttal against this is "those people were vulnerable to psychosis from the get-go", but what does that mean when, without cannabis use, those persons might have gone their whole lives without a psychotic episode? Edit: if you carefully read my post you might notice I'm not saying cannabis should be illegal.

So? Any action you take (including doing nothing) can have negative consequences. As long as it doesn't spontaneous cause psychosis in bystanders, let em smoke some pot.

[deleted]

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#186

Post by sooheon » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:12 AM UTC

lima wrote: post #167

blubb-fish wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it definitely should be used in moderation. regarding psychosis - if you compare weed consumption with number of schizophrenic diagnoses then the idea that weed causes schizophrenia can be easily falsified. but - of course - any psycho active substance can and will impair the mind of somebody consuming it irresponsibly. a lot of people micro dose weed - less than 0.05g per consumption unit - that's not going to cause…

> if you compare weed consumption with number of schizophrenic diagnoses then the idea that weed causes schizophrenia can be easily falsified That's not how it works. There are many potential triggers for psychosis in general (and schizophrenia in particular), and there are reputable studies which show that cannabis consumption is one of them. > but - of course - any psycho active substance can and will impair the mi…

So what? It is perfectly legal for me to choose to sit in a cubicle and rot away the best years of my life, a fate little better than as clinical psychosis. Let people do the things they want with their own lives.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#187

Post by heavenlyblue » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:14 AM UTC

firmgently wrote: post #105

blubb-fish wrote: post #82

Here in Germany politicians are still stating that Cannabis is a gateway drug, causes psychosis and makes stupid. They will even actively lie and twist statistics. My theory for why many politicians - especially from the right-wing - are so opposed is b/c they didn't like their weed smoking and long-haired fellow students. It's a Pavlov thing. Like many people dislike golf (justly so in my humble opinion) b/c they di…

That may be part of it but (at least here in the UK) the bigger factor is votes. The increasingly-shrinking (the most recent general election being an exception) voter demographic has a large overlap with the hysterical "lock 'em all up" authoritarian demographic. Legalisation of drugs is political suicide. When the UK gov's drugs advisor advised that drugs should be legal they sacked him.

It's interesting though how informally liberal UK is about drugs, at the same time.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#188

Post by vectorEQ » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:19 AM UTC

a lot of drugs used to be legitimate drugs,but are now illegal to be able to sell other shitty substances which are more expensive and often less effective. example: mdma treatment for ptsd. most ptsd treatments are ill effective these days, but before wo2 mdma treatment was very effective. it's now only able to be given in certain places, usually from people who can't licence themselves properly, adding risk to this treatment where before it was solid. http://www.mdmaptsd.org/news.html most banned substances are just 'buisness deals' between pharma industry and government. For the US people, this is not just due to war on drugs. war on drugs is an effect , not a cause.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#189

Post by ivanhoe » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:22 AM UTC

kaffeemitsahne wrote: post #166

blubb-fish wrote: post #82

Here in Germany politicians are still stating that Cannabis is a gateway drug, causes psychosis and makes stupid. They will even actively lie and twist statistics. My theory for why many politicians - especially from the right-wing - are so opposed is b/c they didn't like their weed smoking and long-haired fellow students. It's a Pavlov thing. Like many people dislike golf (justly so in my humble opinion) b/c they di…

Cannibis can cause psychosis in some people, just type "cannabis psychosis" into google scholar. The common rebuttal against this is "those people were vulnerable to psychosis from the get-go", but what does that mean when, without cannabis use, those persons might have gone their whole lives without a psychotic episode? Edit: if you carefully read my post you might notice I'm not saying cannabis should be illegal.

So can alcohol, plus a lot more other very dangerous side-effects. Also, while not psycho-active, tobacco, coffee and even chocolate are very addictive substances and high-risk for some groups of people, too. So while technically true that cannabis is not without it's risks, it's not a valid argument against it unless they plan on banning half of the food that we eat...

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#190

Post by gopz » Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:23 AM UTC

alexasmyths wrote: post #173

simonh wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legalising drugs != Making them cheap as chips on every high street. We can legalize drugs while applying significant barriers to entry such as high taxes, regulated distribution, user registration, medical oversight, etc and still suck the profits out of the illegal market. This has been done already and it works. Criminalising everything to do with drugs has utterly failed. That's just a flat out fact, the huge dam…

"and still suck the profits out of the illegal market. " Not really. If you create a big series of regulations and taxes around drugs - then there will still be a huge secondary, black market. The 'war on drugs' will therefore continue - even as you 'legalize' drugs. Double whammy. Take cigarettes - a much milder health concern: "the total U.S. tobacco market represented by illicit sales has grown in recent years and…

I am also wary of the mass legalization of illicit drugs, mainly because of the already huge problem my states has with opiates. I think it's a good goal, but should I really believe that the "regulated" decriminalized drug market is going to be that much better than the already heavily regulated prescription drug market? Maybe once the US can get it together with it's painkiller problem I'd be more inclined to believe in total decriminalization. I would like to see how a system like Portugal's works with opiates in US before I'd hop on board for the whole shebang. However, it seems unlikely to happen since it's already hard enough to get tax payers to sport for Narcan let alone the drugs themselves.