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Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

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Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#171

Post by [deleted] »

blubb-fish wrote: post #152
lima wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm strongly in favor of legalization, but I still believe Cannabis is dangerous (just like alcohol, tobacco and countless other legal drugs are). It's a well known fact that it can trigger psychosis in susceptible persons and I have even witnessed it happen to a close friend. It also had hugely detrimental effects on some of my weed-smoking friends, to the point that I no longer want to spend time with them since it…

it definitely should be used in moderation. regarding psychosis - if you compare weed consumption with number of schizophrenic diagnoses then the idea that weed causes schizophrenia can be easily falsified. but - of course - any psycho active substance can and will impair the mind of somebody consuming it irresponsibly. a lot of people micro dose weed - less than 0.05g per consumption unit - that's not going to cause…

[deleted]

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#172

Post by KozmoNau7 »

spaceseaman wrote: post #49
brndnmtthws wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drinking coffee is unhealthy? You sure about that? > Studies have shown that coffee may have health benefits, including protecting against Parkinson's disease, type 2 diabetes and liver disease, including liver cancer. Coffee also appears to improve cognitive function and decrease the risk of depression. http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-he...

The high caffeine intake is still quite bad for your heart. And it's bad for your teeth. Just googling shows that the scientific results have been quite mixed. By that I mean that scientists have found some positive correlations, and some negative ones. From my layman's perspective, I would think a doctor would say there isn't a consensus on whether coffee is holistically healthy. In other words, it's good for some t…

That's a high caffeine intake, though. All studies I've seen, show that a cup a day has solely positive effects.

And it's only bad for your teeth if you load it with sugar.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#173

Post by alexasmyths »

simonh wrote: post #147
alexasmyths wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Not necessarily. When people really want something they will eventually find a way to get it anyway," No, not true at all. Supply and Demand. The 'cost' of doing drugs in society right now is pretty dam high. Social stigma, the possibility of going to jail, various professional licences lost. The 'free market price' of synthetic heroin and other drugs would be as cheap as sugar. Walk down to the local store and buy…

Legalising drugs != Making them cheap as chips on every high street. We can legalize drugs while applying significant barriers to entry such as high taxes, regulated distribution, user registration, medical oversight, etc and still suck the profits out of the illegal market. This has been done already and it works. Criminalising everything to do with drugs has utterly failed. That's just a flat out fact, the huge dam…

"and still suck the profits out of the illegal market. "

Not really.

If you create a big series of regulations and taxes around drugs - then there will still be a huge secondary, black market.

The 'war on drugs' will therefore continue - even as you 'legalize' drugs. Double whammy.

Take cigarettes - a much milder health concern:

"the total U.S. tobacco market represented by illicit sales has grown in recent years and is now between 8.5 percent and 21 percent." [1]

So now you have to 'fight a war on drugs' - and deal with the massive health-care crisis from the considerably more people who well get hooked on opioids, barbiturates etc..

[1] http://sites.nationalacademies.org/dbasse/claj/us_illicit_to...

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#174

Post by KozmoNau7 »

closeparen wrote: post #158
anythingnonidin wrote: post #21

Some reasons for decriminalization of use and possession, summarized: (i.e., removing criminal penalties or making it no jail time possible, but not government supplied) - War on drugs has failed. Criminalization has consequences on community - in many cases, most of the negative effects come from the criminalization, not the drug. - Consensual crimes that don’t harm others shouldn’t be crimes. - Drug prohibition doe…

>Criminalization has consequences on community Mass addiction has consequences on community. > Consensual crimes that don’t harm others shouldn’t be crimes People who self-destruct rarely do so in a vacuum. The community, and specifically their families, are harmed. Just look at what addiction as a public health crisis is doing to the places ravaged by opioid abuse. > Drug war enforcement costs a ton A drugged out, n…

>A drugged out, non-productive population costs a ton

Look at the data from Colorado and other states that have legalized pot, and from Portugal, where they've decriminalized all drugs.

Legalization does not make for a "drugged out, non-productive population".

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#175

Post by colejohnson66 »

xahrepap wrote: post #61
everdev wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, barriers to entry matter. If you're craving a drug and it's sold in a convenient store around the corner, you might purchase it more frequently than if you had to buy it from potentially dangerous people in a seedy part of town. That said, as with any bad habit I'm sure usage would still decrease over time for most individuals as they mature or if healthier alternatives are readily available.

But also, people who have addictions wouldn't be considered criminals so they wouldn't be so reluctant to get help.

Being high is not illegal; Being in possession is

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#176

Post by alexasmyths »

enord wrote: post #108
alexasmyths wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no 'danger' from 'not buying stuff from your dealer' anymore.

I see you've never dealt with a dealer before.

I've known many a dealer in my lifetime, and a distant family member who spent some time incarcerated for 'high level' activity, who gives me long tales of how the business works as well.

Dealers don't assault, endanger or attack random customers who just stop buying.

That's totally absurd, and that someone would suggest it - indicates that they are getting their information from Netflix/Hollywood films or something, not reality.

The vast majority of dealers are actually fairly normal people anyhow.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#177

Post by madshiva »

machiaweliczny wrote: post #113
blubb-fish wrote: post #82

Here in Germany politicians are still stating that Cannabis is a gateway drug, causes psychosis and makes stupid. They will even actively lie and twist statistics. My theory for why many politicians - especially from the right-wing - are so opposed is b/c they didn't like their weed smoking and long-haired fellow students. It's a Pavlov thing. Like many people dislike golf (justly so in my humble opinion) b/c they di…

Extensive use of cannabis has such effects from my observations. While at University I knew some people who were smoking weed everyday and they exposed psychosis, acted weird and were lazy. Maybe it's from some other substances that could be mixed with it...

You can act weird an be lazy without weed. If you act weird does is the product that make you like that or you that are simply weird? Anyway University is not the correct age/moment to consume any product like this.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#178

Post by shakna »

DanBC wrote: post #142
shakna wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a whole class of drugs guaranteed to kill your child during pregnancy, and another where the interactions may seriously harm the child. Another where two relatively harmless drugs, when interacting, can produce the previous results. It isn't acceptable to just put the risk on the average, uneducated person, who is easily swayed by the way media portrays something. We have experts for a reason, which is to gui…

Which country are you talking about? This treatment plan for a person with borderlinePD is likely to cause harm. > where the psychologist practices Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (as CBT is the only government-approved therapy), which has no affect CBT is a short form therapy, normally about 8 weeks. Do not use brief psychological interventions of less than 3 months. https://www.nice.org.uk/donotdo/do-not-use-brief-psy…

> Which country are you talking about? This treatment plan for a person with borderlinePD is likely to cause harm.

I'm aware of the harm. But it is the start of therapy programs in several nations, Australia, New Zealand, France, United States of America, among others.

> Do not use brief psychological interventions of less than 3 months.

Precisely, but the therapy with the most proven effectiveness, dialectical behaviour therapy, has little support from the government programs. In fact, CBT has proven to be harmful for those suffering from BPD, but is a requirement when you first begin treating a patient in some of the above nations.

> Drug treatment should not be used specifically for borderline personality disorder

However, it is commonly used to start treatment, and supplement ongoing talk therapy, with the ultimate goal of removing it.

> What Alice probably needs is a long form talking therapy

Which is not available to her.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#179

Post by KozmoNau7 »

katastic wrote: post #71
SilentCrossing wrote: post #66

The article is about "decriminalization of all nonviolent drug use and possession". This sounds noble, but as we found out in the Netherlands you will have to make a distinction between soft drugs and hard drugs. Hard drugs is always associated with crime and most of the time violent crime and gangs. So I would say. Been there done that. We are cracking down on this type of policy, since 'education' does not work and…

We're living in a strange culture of over optimism that thinks if we just magically change certain systems "literally everyone will be better." No. Heroin users aren't going to magically become productive members of society just because we legalize heroin.

Maybe not, but the heroin addicts will no longer have to resort to robberies and other crime in order to fund their addictions, and it will become easier to offer them help and treatment.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#180

Post by Acalyptol »

ekianjo wrote: post #48
justonepost wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your goal. If it's to reduce mortality, yes, decriminalize is good. But it will increase usage.

>But it will increase usage. Not necessarily. When people really want something they will eventually find a way to get it anyway, it's not because you criminalize it that its usage drops. Just like IP infringement has not significantly dropped since they can put people in jail for it.

The point being when you decriminalize it becomes accessible both to those who "really want" it and those who just would be curious to try it.
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