Honest question: How would decriminalization of drugs work in practice? Would it be legal to e.g. import and sell cristal meth in stores? What about cheap self-made alcohol that might contain dangerous stuff like methanol; where do you draw the line?
Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
81–90 of 377 posts
Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#82Here in Germany politicians are still stating that Cannabis is a gateway drug, causes psychosis and makes stupid. They will even actively lie and twist statistics.
My theory for why many politicians - especially from the right-wing - are so opposed is b/c they didn't like their weed smoking and long-haired fellow students. It's a Pavlov thing.
Like many people dislike golf (justly so in my humble opinion) b/c they dislike the stereotypical golf enthusiasts.
Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Other reasons: - Prisons are known to make criminals. You don't want to risk converting a non-violent addict into a violent one. - The psychological effects on the addict's children when visiting them. A rehab home for non-violent addicts is a actually a nice place, in a way that most prisons simply can't be. - At least in Portugal, prisons are actually not a very difficult place to get a fix. Rehab houses can be, si…
- drug cartels run dry if you can just farm and distribute narcotics through regular, taxed sales channels, just like alcohol.
That's only if you legalize, we were talking about just decriminalization :)
Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree, but if someone somehow gets a hold of drugs--and puts it in their body they shouldn't go to jail for that... putting substances in one's own body doesn't necessarily hurt others--unless they become violent as a result - but until they commit some violent crime hopped up on meth -- innocent till guilty of a violent crime. Morality and what not should not be forced on people. And most people with drug dependen…
Violence isn't the only crime one can commit on drugs. Neglect and carelessness can also be criminal acts in some circumstances.
Agreed. Gah... it's such a mess.
I totally get the argument that the drug war is insane---it creates a black market, fuels organized crime, puts harmless folks in jails, unfairly targets minorities, and so on. And I generally agree that people should be able to do what they want to their own selves.
And yet, drugs are clearly bad, and I fear that legalizing them is a hugely normalizing move.
I do like to drink, but it's clear that alcohol is absolutely everywhere in the US and that this causes huge collateral damage. Yes, it's absolutely possible to drink occasionally, and responsibly, and have a great time, and what's not to like? But people still very frequently kill each other by driving drunk, or they drink themselves to death and leave their families to deal with the mess, or they use alcohol as a tool for rape, or they simply drink more than they should, and more frequently, to the detriment of their health, careers, marriages, and general potential. It's generally expected and accepted that it is normal for high-school kids to be drinking, and maybe this seems OK to some folks, and maybe nothing can be done for it, but it bugs the hell out of me, because I have kids, and because, from my own personal experience, the line between recreation and dependence is very thin, indeed.
Legal or not, pot is implicitly and increasingly acceptable almost everywhere. I hear that more than half of US adults have tried it. And I have friends, with little kids, who regularly use it and keep it in their homes. They provide excuses about why they need it and explanations of what it does for them. As an outsider, it seems like total and complete bullshit, and I don't want any part of it.
Fortunately I'm old and stubborn enough to set my own, clear boundaries. But my kids are a lot younger than me, and not so inflexible. I very much don't want them to be pressured into alcohol and pot and all the rest when they are so young. I'll teach them as best I can, and they'll decide to do what they will. But as drug use becomes more normal, acceptable, and pervasive, I fear we'll inevitably see a lot more folks (especially kids) being pulled into it, and I think that will cause a lot of damage.
Of course, hopefully I'm wrong.
Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Almost every post about drugs on HN has the obligatory bit about Nixon starting the war on drugs. It's like a Shibboleth or something. Nixon probably tried to make political hay out of it sure, but the war against intoxicants has been going on probably since people started using intoxicants. No shortage of earlier historical examples. At most Nixon is a chapter in the ongoing saga. So please, for all that is holy, st…
My understanding is that there's the war on drugs and then there's the War on Drugs, and the latter is what is (correctly?) attributed to Nixon, even when it is not bothered to be capitalized.
I think the point is that, while yes the naming of the 'War on Drugs' is fairly attributed to Nixon, almost none of the significantly harmful policies we've come to associate with it were actually enacted on his watch - i.e. things like three strike laws or mandatory minimum sentencing or drug raids conducted by SWAT teams. It's really Reagan who should get the "credit" for most of that. And Clinton kept things trending in the same direction, to be fair.
Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Another context for the same words: Vietnam could be considered the war on drugs. If what I've read is correct, US soldiers were given amphetamine pills "like candy".
They were just following the tradition set by the Germans in WW2: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/05/pilot...
Good point, don't know how I forgot that.
I'm fairly convinced Hitler was on the gear too.
Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#87> decriminalization of all nonviolent drug use and possession What is meant by nonviolent drug use?
Using drugs without being violent?
Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
>But it will increase usage. Not necessarily. When people really want something they will eventually find a way to get it anyway, it's not because you criminalize it that its usage drops. Just like IP infringement has not significantly dropped since they can put people in jail for it.
Well, barriers to entry matter. If you're craving a drug and it's sold in a convenient store around the corner, you might purchase it more frequently than if you had to buy it from potentially dangerous people in a seedy part of town. That said, as with any bad habit I'm sure usage would still decrease over time for most individuals as they mature or if healthier alternatives are readily available.
I know this is an older article, but the Portuguese found that in practice, lifetime usage rates actually decreased following decriminalisation of most narcotics: http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,0...
Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#89Even if you had a staunchly anti-drug stance, it's also fair to say that law enforcement resources are not unlimited. Dealing with drugs like cannabis and cocaine are a waste of taxpayer dollars relative to serious issues of opioids and methamphetamine.
Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)
#90Some reasons for decriminalization of use and possession, summarized: (i.e., removing criminal penalties or making it no jail time possible, but not government supplied) - War on drugs has failed. Criminalization has consequences on community - in many cases, most of the negative effects come from the criminalization, not the drug. - Consensual crimes that don’t harm others shouldn’t be crimes. - Drug prohibition doe…
I'm going to play the devil's advocate here (waited for a long time to use this formulation): > War on drugs has failed. Yes - but - most politicians will go the extra mile to deny they failed. > Consensual crimes that don’t harm others shouldn’t be crimes. Yes - but - how about Armin Meiwes eating Bernd Brandes :o (this time it's the cannibal card I play - the CP card is still ready up my sleeve) > Drug prohibition…
cannibal card -> I'd say this is mostly about others people discomfort with it. As this seems to boil down to suicide / cult suicide + meat consumption of a uncommonly consumed animal (humans in this case). The main problem lies in the reason for suicide. (There might also be health problems with eating certain meat, I don't know.)