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Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

washingtonpost.com

71–80 of 377 posts

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#71

The article is about "decriminalization of all nonviolent drug use and possession". This sounds noble, but as we found out in the Netherlands you will have to make a distinction between soft drugs and hard drugs. Hard drugs is always associated with crime and most of the time violent crime and gangs. So I would say. Been there done that. We are cracking down on this type of policy, since 'education' does not work and…

We're living in a strange culture of over optimism that thinks if we just magically change certain systems "literally everyone will be better."

No. Heroin users aren't going to magically become productive members of society just because we legalize heroin.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#72

The article is about "decriminalization of all nonviolent drug use and possession". This sounds noble, but as we found out in the Netherlands you will have to make a distinction between soft drugs and hard drugs. Hard drugs is always associated with crime and most of the time violent crime and gangs. So I would say. Been there done that. We are cracking down on this type of policy, since 'education' does not work and…

We're living in a strange culture of over optimism that thinks if we just magically change certain systems "literally everyone will be better." No. Heroin users aren't going to magically become productive members of society just because we legalize heroin.

The article is a bit more nuanced than expecting "literally everyone will be better" or "heroin users aren't going to magically become productive members of society".

'anythingnonidin has summarized a number of the points from the article here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15281949

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that there's the war on drugs and then there's the War on Drugs, and the latter is what is (correctly?) attributed to Nixon, even when it is not bothered to be capitalized.

Another context for the same words: Vietnam could be considered the war on drugs. If what I've read is correct, US soldiers were given amphetamine pills "like candy".

They were just following the tradition set by the Germans in WW2: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/05/pilot...

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#74
post #53
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But it will increase usage. Not necessarily. When people really want something they will eventually find a way to get it anyway, it's not because you criminalize it that its usage drops. Just like IP infringement has not significantly dropped since they can put people in jail for it.

Well, barriers to entry matter. If you're craving a drug and it's sold in a convenient store around the corner, you might purchase it more frequently than if you had to buy it from potentially dangerous people in a seedy part of town. That said, as with any bad habit I'm sure usage would still decrease over time for most individuals as they mature or if healthier alternatives are readily available.

> If you're craving a drug and it's sold in a convenient store around the corner

But it goes with greater awareness of the risks as well, and once it's in the public, you can expect a lot more discussion about its usage rather than a too simple "it's bad" attitude.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#75
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot avoid the nasty social effects of drug prohibition (crime, violence, contamination, etc) without making distribution legal. If you want to live in a world without homeless junkies breaking into your car, or a world without running gun battles in the street, or a world without your wayward kids accidentally ODing on their next batch, you need drugs like cocaine and heroin to be sold openly and affordably at…

I don't see that borne out by the opioid crisis. Many believe it was lax prescription that allowed opioids to become preferred and prevalent narcotics to abuse. If they are not available it does not matter how many cars or houses you brake into, it does no good if no one is selling. So you say, well in that case someone will make them dirty and available for a price. Punish the illegal seller and prosecute all suppli…

1. Many, even the ethical, doctors prescribed opioids for pain, and misery.

2. A very small percentage of Doctors set up shop to hook their patients.

3. I just can't put all the blame on doctors.

4. People are miserable across this county. A lot of you are insulated from the misery, but it's there. The anti-drpepressant effects of opioids should not be hidden. They make you feel good.

Plus--I don't think it's a coincidence that heterocyclic/tricyclic anti-depressants have come under extreme scrutiny. Basically--do they even work. Oh yea, that double blind study, in India, proved they work 62% over a huge Placebo response? Meaning 6 patients answered three positive questing, more that the control group, on that poorly worded psychological test.

5. Now the problem is the patient starts to develop a tolerance. The foolish run to the street, and buy bags of whatever. The responsible patient stays on the same dosage. (There are studies, done in nursing homes, that state that patients on opioids can stay on tge same dose of opioids for years, and don't feel the need go up their dose.)

6. O.K. we are blaming the doctors for the opioids crisis. They don't want to get sued, or have the FDA knocking on their door; so they cut off the patient.

7. Now, if the patient can't kick the stuff by themselves, they are labeled addicts. They go on bupenorpine, or methadone. They have to jump through hoops just to get that medication. Many, if in the right areas, just go to the street. I can see why they do. I don't understand anyone who just sticks a needle in their arm, and hopes for the best.

8. We are now stuck with a terrible system, and people in agony. Way to go America!

(Excuse my attitude. My doctor got cold feet prescribing me bupenorpine, after a decade of taking it. It's not been easy getting off of. I am not happy with the system is the slightest. I don't blame the doctors though. Many of them know their patients do just fine on a on most controlled substances. Now--the doctors who are dragging in their patients for unnecessary office visits; those bastards should be exposed, and dealt with. The ethical doctors should be left alone to treat their patients, without any oversight. Yea--try finding a ethics, doctor. I do know they exist.)

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#77
post #5

Finally. I hope this will signal a turning point on this insane approach to national health in all countries. Drugs are a health problem, not a criminal problem. Lone experts have been fired in western countries when they have expressed this common sense sentiments alone [0]. I hope this groups fares better. Nixon started the war on drugs anyway as a mean to attack left and black activists [1]. Any previous legislati…

Depends on your goal. If it's to reduce mortality, yes, decriminalize is good. But it will increase usage.

What's better than reduction of mortality?

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#78
Full steam ahead with decriminalization of possession/use, and with regulated markets for psychedelic and most stimulants

However after seeing how business behaves when it can sell opiates, I'm in favor of even more regulation than we currently have on some drug markets

(Also, if it were up to me, I'd ban ads for drugs, including alcohol and prescriptions)

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#79

Some reasons for decriminalization of use and possession, summarized: (i.e., removing criminal penalties or making it no jail time possible, but not government supplied) - War on drugs has failed. Criminalization has consequences on community - in many cases, most of the negative effects come from the criminalization, not the drug. - Consensual crimes that don’t harm others shouldn’t be crimes. - Drug prohibition doe…

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here (waited for a long time to use this formulation):

> War on drugs has failed.

Yes - but - most politicians will go the extra mile to deny they failed.

> Consensual crimes that don’t harm others shouldn’t be crimes.

Yes - but - how about Armin Meiwes eating Bernd Brandes :o (this time it's the cannibal card I play - the CP card is still ready up my sleeve)

> Drug prohibition doesn’t seem to decrease use

That's because it wasn't enforced tough enough and has been back stabbed by the left!

> Drug war enforcement costs a ton, we could save tax money.

Well ... guess where the money goes - to my client and from there to me :)

> 1.2 million people arrested for drug possession in 2015

So? I just invested in CoreCivic!

> Prisons are crowded. Would reduce this a little.

Yes and we also need swimming pools there and anyway prison should be nicer - of course - evil grin

> Easier for addicts to seek treatment.

I don't know any addicts and they don't vote for me.

Re: Top medical experts say we should decriminalize all drugs (2016)

#80
post #53
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But it will increase usage. Not necessarily. When people really want something they will eventually find a way to get it anyway, it's not because you criminalize it that its usage drops. Just like IP infringement has not significantly dropped since they can put people in jail for it.

Well, barriers to entry matter. If you're craving a drug and it's sold in a convenient store around the corner, you might purchase it more frequently than if you had to buy it from potentially dangerous people in a seedy part of town. That said, as with any bad habit I'm sure usage would still decrease over time for most individuals as they mature or if healthier alternatives are readily available.

>If you're craving a drug and it's sold in a convenient store around the corner

Decriminalization means it's not illegal to possess, not that it's legal to sell. An important distinction in these sorts of discussions.

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