Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

scientificamerican.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 122 posts

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#51

Post by maxerickson »

colordrops wrote: post #48
maxerickson wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between trying to figure out what to eat and advertising that you have figured out what to eat.

Your implication is that nothing should ever be suggested without scientific references and footnotes. That is just absurd in the extreme. Do you do search the journals before teaching your kid to wipe his ass? Do you really think that diet is any different from any other thing that we do several times a day for our entire lives?

The number of people making fantastical claims about toilet paper is a lot smaller than the number of people making fantastical claims about the important of specific diet components or habits.

Like take your comment that I replied to. It is incredibly specific advice. As if there is 1 brand of toilet paper that is absolutely the right one.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#52

Post by jobu »

This seems like the key thing:

There was another intriguing connection: Acinetobacter are molecular mimics of proteins found in myelin, the nerve cell coating that the immune system attacks in MS.

It sounds like a very similar situation to PANDAS and PANS: http://www.pandasnetwork.org/understanding-pandaspans/what-i...

Some bacteria have evolved to trick our immune system into ignoring them, but an overactive immune system will attack that bacteria and the human cells they're trying to mimic.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#53

Post by esm »

miguelrochefort wrote: post #25

Do we actually need gut bacteria? Do they serve other purposes that breaking down fibers?

Gut bacteria have many functions, and there are likely more out there to be discovered than we know about currently. One of the functions that I find interesting is that bacteria help to synthesize vitamin K, which is required by the liver to build proteins that allow blood to clot. Neonates do not have the gut flora to synthesize vitamin K at birth, which is why they get a vitamin K shot after delivery.

Normal gut bacteria also coat the GI tract, preventing pathogenic bacteria from sticking to the surface of the intestines. This is part of the reason babies under 1 should not eat raw honey (which has C. botulinum spores that can stick to the intestines and produce botulinum toxin), while older kids and adults have no trouble with it.

Along the same lines, a hot (though, admittedly disgusting) area of research in medicine now is fecal transplant for people with a particularly aggressive form of colitis. I believe that the research on glut flora transplantation is also being expanded to weight loss, but I'm not very familiar with the studies.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#54

Post by Gatsky »

_of wrote: post #40
Gatsky wrote: post #37

It is very easy to find correlations between phenotypic traits (getting MS, developing cancer, autism etc) and "your favourite biological variable". See John Ioannidis talking about microRNA studies for example. Part of the reason for this is that high throughput data like gene expression measures, gene methylation or microbiome sequencing gives you p Not to downplay this data, but caution is required not to over int…

Researchers in genomics are aware of this and that is why researchers are expected to correct their p-values for multiple testing, for example using q-values.

No that isn't the point. These variables are often associated with an outcome or phenotype in a statistically rigorous manner. The point is that knowing this doesn't get us anywhere.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#55

Post by colordrops »

maxerickson wrote: post #51
colordrops wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your implication is that nothing should ever be suggested without scientific references and footnotes. That is just absurd in the extreme. Do you do search the journals before teaching your kid to wipe his ass? Do you really think that diet is any different from any other thing that we do several times a day for our entire lives?

The number of people making fantastical claims about toilet paper is a lot smaller than the number of people making fantastical claims about the important of specific diet components or habits. Like take your comment that I replied to. It is incredibly specific advice. As if there is 1 brand of toilet paper that is absolutely the right one.

I think it would be more like, use soft toilet paper and wet it to avoid overwiping. It's a good guideline but not a physical law etched in stone.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#56

Post by colordrops »

shanev wrote: post #39
colordrops wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small amounts of animal protein and lots of raw greens and vegetables, tubers and roots. Everything else is extra. Be careful though about making any specific recommendations here or else someone with a different idea will attack you for not backing it up with scientific data. Because you shouldn't try to figure out what to eat until you get a PhD.

What’s the value in raw vs cooked vegetables? I thought cooking makes their nutrients more bio-available. Do you really eat tubers raw? I can't imagine eating a potato raw. Our ancestors even always cooked them.

Sorry, I threw in tubers after the fact, and didn't mean to imply that they should be eaten raw.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#57

Post by BurningFrog »

shanev wrote: post #50
BurningFrog wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this books makes the case against raw diets very well: https://www.amazon.com/Catching-Fire-Cooking-Made-Human/dp/0... That's the thing with diets. There is a real well reasoned argument for and against most anything...

You're the 4th or 5th person to recommend this book to me. Guess I have to read it now :)

Actually, I'm one of your previous in person recommenders (didn't notice the user name), so only 3rd or 4th :)

Still a really fascinating and well written book.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#58

Post by Nomentatus »

jpster wrote: post #15
jryan49 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of changes? I have a hard time searching google about gut health without feeling like none of it's scientific, and all a scam for advertising or selling products.

Kimchi, sauerkraut and yogurt, among other things. https://www.rd.com/health/wellness/probiotic-foods-gut-bacte...

Careful - most of what you buy as "Kimchi", even from Korea, and most "sauerkraut"; is probiotic in no way whatsoever. That's because it isn't fermented as it should be, they've just poured in vinegar to make pickled vegetable matter. That won't help you at all.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#59

Post by qarioz »

colordrops wrote: post #55
maxerickson wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of people making fantastical claims about toilet paper is a lot smaller than the number of people making fantastical claims about the important of specific diet components or habits. Like take your comment that I replied to. It is incredibly specific advice. As if there is 1 brand of toilet paper that is absolutely the right one.

I think it would be more like, use soft toilet paper and wet it to avoid overwiping. It's a good guideline but not a physical law etched in stone.

Or follow the more enlightened civilization and use bidet.

Re: Gut Germs Appear to Play Role in Multiple Sclerosis

#60

Post by petre »

shanev wrote: post #39
colordrops wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small amounts of animal protein and lots of raw greens and vegetables, tubers and roots. Everything else is extra. Be careful though about making any specific recommendations here or else someone with a different idea will attack you for not backing it up with scientific data. Because you shouldn't try to figure out what to eat until you get a PhD.

What’s the value in raw vs cooked vegetables? I thought cooking makes their nutrients more bio-available. Do you really eat tubers raw? I can't imagine eating a potato raw. Our ancestors even always cooked them.

Cooking was probably man's greatest discovery, well before the wheel. Why negate all of that and join a culinary religion?

Remember the E. Coli epidemic in Hamburg a few years ago? It started from raw bean sprouts.

https://www.foodsafety.gov/keep/types/fruits/sprouts.html

Post reply on HN