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W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

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Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#531

Post by bsder »

noir_lord wrote: post #88
tptacek wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems self-evidently unharmful, in that we appear to be in a golden era of delivering content online so extraordinary that it threatens traditional television networks. I understand that this is an extremely unpopular sentiment on HN, but here goes: at least with respect to video content, the industry seems to have largely proven DRM concerns unfounded. Update: modulo the Hickson concerns below. Continuing: DRM ce…

The really insane part is that the DRM is pointless anyway, you can go onto any file sharing/streaming site within minutes of a Netflix release dropping and it's there in HD. I still maintain my netflix account 1) because my mum uses it with her Roku and 2) because they should be paid for providing value and good TV. I have the technical skills (like nearly all HN readers I'd imagine) to stream whatever I want with e…

The big guys know that DRM doesn't work. DRM is about putting "color onto the bits" so people can be sued.

Nothing more; nothing less.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#532

Post by exikyut »

frivoal wrote: post #489
ashleysmithgpu wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the EFF a big enough presence to "fork" the W3C standards? I hope so.

That's the wrong question. W3C itself is relatively tiny, and has fairly ordinary (albeit well tuned) software/server infrastructure. Reproducing the legal framework would be more of a pain, but even that could probably be done. But W3C is mostly its member companies, and the're not switching, since the majority of them, including all browsers, were in favor of this. So if all existing specifications continue to resi…

What's the WHATWG's position on EME and particularly these developments?

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#533

Post by NamTaf »

bitmapbrother wrote: post #433
josteink wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This was basically wanted by Firefox, Apple, Microsoft and Google. This was absolutely NOT wanted by Firefox. They were the only browser to represent the users in this fight. Don't put Mozilla in the same group as those other traitors.

>This was absolutely NOT wanted by Firefox. They were the only browser to represent the users in this fight. Don't put Mozilla in the same group as those other traitors. But they ended up including DRM in their browser. So they're traitors and hypocrites, right?

You can still get the EME-free browser. They released both because ultimately, giving those who care a choice is easier than surviving once you alienate the legions of those who demand it for Netflix or the like.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#534

Post by KGIII »

wolfgke wrote: post #481
KGIII wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not your decision to make. They own their sites and content. You are, of course, free to ignore it. If you don't like a site, use the back button. You can complain, of course. What you can't do is control others. That's something the web is good at working around.

> That's not your decision to make. They own their sites and content. They try to spread DRM-malware over the EME interface onto the user's computers.

And you have the options to not use it. You don't get to decide what other people do with their property. That's pretty much against the reasons the web is here.

You can complain, if you want. That doesn't appear to be helping but you're free to do so.

My strategy is to avoid it where reasonably possible. I let other people do what they want with their stuff.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#535

Post by l3m0ndr0p »

Maybe now's the time to abandon the W3C - Maybe we can encourage the EFF to create a "Free Web Consortium." Sort of like "let's encrypt." I think this would better server a free and open web for the 21st Century and beyond. It appears, based on this information from the EFF & their exit from W3c, the W3C has become corrupted at some level.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#536

Post by theSpaceOctopus »

jdmichal wrote: post #463
dom0 wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I understand that server-side rendering is basically dead. Server-side rendering is a mature technology, don't measure it's pervasiveness in how often you see articles in the news about it...

Hey, I love ASP.NET as much as the next guy. But there's no mistaking the large trend from what used to be entirely server-side rendering (LAMP days) to REST services with JavaScript front-ends.

> But there’s no mistaking the large trend...

You didn’t say that, you said “server side rendering is basically dead”.

Believe it or not, lots of people are still building things without JavaScript front ends.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#537

Post by jlarocco »

ashark wrote: post #327
sboselli wrote: post #38

Shame, shame, shame. We're losing the internet day by day, if we haven't done so already. I've seen people and posts here and there calling for attention on these issues, but imho it's all too subtle. We should start using harsher terminology for what's actually happening. This is flat out CORRUPTION, and I'm not seeing anyone express it as such. It's probably too late already, and unfortunately, this is merely a ref…

If someone launches a new HTML-based Web with crippled javascript ( no network comm access, for one, including ability to trigger links or forms), some small, restricted subset of CSS, and much better built-in dynamic table and form elements, I'm there . This Web's about to be eaten by DRM and WebAssembly anyway. Pretty soon it'll just be a way to deliver QT apps (or some other framework that runs in WebAssembly and…

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but I'll point out anyway that literally every single feature of the current internet is opt-in. Most of the time it's not even difficult to opt-out.

If you really want a separate internet without the "bad parts", you can still use Gopher. There are still sites around, and you won't even get images, which were the first thing to "ruin" the internet, and were the launching point down the slippery slope to DRM video.

On a side note, it's interesting that so many HN readers are against this kind of DRM, but at the same time there's a large group here who are against ad-blockers. Ad-revenue is the main driver motivating companies to shoe-horn this crap into the web. It's not a coincidence that the biggest ad company in the world also makes one of the most popular web browsers and is a huge media distributor.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#539

Post by DrJokepu »

pedrocr wrote: post #374
DrJokepu wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is watching Netflix at 1080p or more a power user feature? Because currently that's heavily restricted by DRM. Not possible on any open-source operating system, restricted to a few browsers on Mac and Windows. Consuming content anything else than the mainstream browsers on anything else than the mainstream operating systems or devices is definitely a power user feature, yes.

I guess Google Chrome on Windows must be a niche thing then. Because that only gets 720p.

> Not possible on any open-source operating system

So where do you get more than 720p if you don't get it neither on open source operating systems nor on Chrome on Windows? If you get 720p max everywhere, why do you think this has anything to do with DRM?

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#540

Post by benchaney »

sev wrote: post #82

DRM can't work in theory, but it is working in practice. If someone writes a piece of software that allows downloading of DRM-ed content (without losing quality, and playable anytime) from the big names (Netflix, Amazon, etc), then this battle would be won.

What are you talking about? Every popular TV show or movie is hosted on a free platform (free meaning both no cost and allowing freedom). How is that "working in practice"?
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