Live data from Hacker News

W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

boingboing.net

491–500 of 1001 posts

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#491
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For "simple economic reasons" you believe companies will go out of their way to block Linux users for some reason? If the browser supports it, that's all that really matters.

To support EME on linux, they need to create an EME plugin for linux. Leaks in that plugin would kinda break DRM, so it needs to be designed well. Writing and maintaing a crypto plugin is quite expensive.

That plugin is called widevine and it's been shipped with chrome for Linux for a year or more. It's already done. They don't need to do anything.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#492
post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And which browsers are going on this fork?

GNU IceCat[0], which is a Firefox fork. [0] https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/IceCat

They are not a W3C member, and do not contribute to standards. So no.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#494

Shame, shame, shame. We're losing the internet day by day, if we haven't done so already. I've seen people and posts here and there calling for attention on these issues, but imho it's all too subtle. We should start using harsher terminology for what's actually happening. This is flat out CORRUPTION, and I'm not seeing anyone express it as such. It's probably too late already, and unfortunately, this is merely a ref…

>This is flat out CORRUPTION

That's a hell of an accusation. And you should present evidence if you're going to level it. It is dishonorable to make baseless attacks on people's character and integrity.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#496

Shame, shame, shame. We're losing the internet day by day, if we haven't done so already. I've seen people and posts here and there calling for attention on these issues, but imho it's all too subtle. We should start using harsher terminology for what's actually happening. This is flat out CORRUPTION, and I'm not seeing anyone express it as such. It's probably too late already, and unfortunately, this is merely a ref…

This will only lead to an eternal Copyright Term Extension Act for online content...

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#497
post #395
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DRM is only necessary because there exist (too many) people who don't have a zero-tolerance policy against DRM. Really? I can see a pretty good argument for why it SHOULD be legal. If I want to post some content I make online why shouldn’t I be able to try to protect it? And let’s not go through the ‘But Sony rootkit!’ stuff. You can make safe DRM. Rooting someone’s computer is already a crime, that’s why Sony in t…

Well that comment went as well as I expected. Can someone give a good argument why someone shouldn’t be able to use DRM to protect their content?

It goes against most people's notions of fairness to pay for a product and still have it encumbered with a lot of limitations. I think the case is stronger if we're talking about streams or rentals, but of course DRM is hardly limited to those.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#498
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone launches a new HTML-based Web with crippled javascript ( no network comm access, for one, including ability to trigger links or forms), some small, restricted subset of CSS, and much better built-in dynamic table and form elements, I'm there . This Web's about to be eaten by DRM and WebAssembly anyway. Pretty soon it'll just be a way to deliver QT apps (or some other framework that runs in WebAssembly and…

Upvoted you, so count me in. Hard to believe in 2017, but as recently as five years ago Google (of all people) published the Caja compiler [1] for sandboxed/statically verified JavaScript subsets, and there was AdSafe aiming for safe JavaScript as well. [1]: https://developers.google.com/caja/ [2]: http://www.adsafe.org

I don't know its current status with the committee, but https://github.com/tc39/proposal-frozen-realms proposes something equivalent to Caja for modern JS. It can be a lot simpler now because ES6+ is much closer to what's needed than JS was when Caja was made.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#499
post #442
post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that comment went as well as I expected. Can someone give a good argument why someone shouldn’t be able to use DRM to protect their content?

Because it does not allow them to protect their content. Their content will still be distributed without their consent, because DRM is broken as quickly as it is implemented. And they will not be the one using DRM to control distribution of their content, the DRM vendor will be. Next: why shouldn't I use the magic beans the mafia are offering me to protect my content?

That doesn't really answer the question, does it? If someone wants to lock up their bike with an ineffective lock, it might be a bad idea, but they're not outside of their moral rights to do so.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In 2013, EFF was disappointed to learn that the W3C had taken on the project of standardizing “Encrypted Media Extensions,” an API whose sole function was to provide a first-class role for DRM within the Web browser ecosystem" With so much money involved here, it's quite naive to believe the W3C members are virgins here and did this out love for the web and for the consumers. And: "It is clear that the W3C allowing…

DRM is also how you get media companies to publish on the web. Media companies couldn't give any less fucks about the web. They can go 100 years without publishing on the web, since they have other revenue paths that they're perfectly happy with. This whole process of enabling DRM is web developer's efforts to kiss media-companies ass in order for them to publish their products on the web. Artists and other creatives…

> DRM is also how you get media companies to publish on the web.

Forgive me not really giving a hoot.

> Media companies couldn't give any less fucks about the web. They can go 100 years without > publishing on the web, since they have other revenue paths that they're perfectly happy with.

Thus explaining their interest in the web, up to and including their push to lock it all down to prop up their outdated business model. If they are happy to stick with other sources of revenue they should do so.

> The web needs these media companies more than the media companies need the web.

Is that so? Funny how the web was already popular before media companies tried to get in on the action.

> You are limiting the web because you are saying you don't want media companies to publish on the web.

That's a strawman. Nobody is saying media companies should not publish on the web. We are saying that the thing that made the web valuable in the first place is openness, to which DRM is antithetical. Media companies are welcome to use the open system that is the web if they want to, and like the rest of us they will have to put up with certain trade-offs -- or at least that was the situation prior to EME.

> Everyone wants to use rights-managed content online.

I seriously doubt that the majority of web users -- billions of people -- care about rights management. The evidence seems to suggest that the overwhelming majority of users could not care less about copyrights, let alone the expansive "rights" that DRM is enforcing. People seem to ignore those "rights" at their convenience; in fact, people seem to seek the entertainment they want without regard to any "rights."

In fact, your beloved media companies also seem to not care terribly much about rights. The rights that copyright confers do not apply solely to copyright owners; included in copyright is the notion of the public domain and of fair use. Those rights are routinely ignored by media companies, through their lawsuits, their takedown notices (dancing baby), and their DRM systems which never include provisions for copyrights expiring and works entering the public domain. So other than yourself I am not sure ANYONE wants "rights-management."

Moreover, people have learned to love an entirely new kind of video entertainment: homemade, amateur videos of cats and other pets; of random people expressing their views; of dashcams in Russia; of idiots doing stupid things; etc. etc. In other words, while media companies were working hard to break the openness of the web, people were embracing that openness to create new forms of entertainment that the media companies could never have created on their own. Oh, yeah, it turns out the websites where those sort of videos are shared are the most popular video streaming services in the world and that more people (in the world generally) are watching videos on those sites than there are people watching cable TV.

So much for the all-important media companies.

> Just acknowledgement of the fact that artists own their works

We have evidence of artists dating back hundreds of thousands of years. Copyright and the notion that ideas and artistic expression can be owned only dates back to the 18th century and was just the final stage of European society adapting to a new communication technology (printing presses). We now have a new communication technology (computer networks) and society is adapting to the new rules and realities of that technology. Some ideas about art and artists rights are going to die, but in their place we will have new ideas and new rights. It is already happening, although in all likelihood none of us will be alive to see what society ultimately settles on.

So basically, the "fact" you are acknowledging barely rises to the level of a footnote in the history of artistic expression, one that is already fading into history as the Internet eats the remaining legacy communication systems. Sorry if that is a hard pill to swallow.

Post reply on HN