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W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

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Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#181
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DRM was coming to browsers with or without the W3C’s blessing. In fact, it was already there via plugins and wasn’t going away. This has changed nothing except where the implementation is documented. The hysteria over this is just ridiculous.

DRM doesn't and will never work. It only serves to annoy people that pay for the movie/game/whatever legitimately. It's against everything the W3C stands for. You dont' have to support something just because it's happening. You fight it, you don't give into it.

DRM is, for the most part, digital Prohibition.

- Makes archiving unnecessarily difficult/impossible.

- Micromanages legitimate use, including limiting legal usages.

- Reduces or eliminates goodwill towards platforms, content distributors and content producers, e.g., it ain't cool.

- Reduces sales through introducing artificial barriers to social network effects, i.e., torrenting often increases sales and popularity through lower-barrier social network effects.

DRM-free fails if people don't pay for it, but this is rarely the case as the majority of people seek to be honest and support their favorite content producers to keep creating more.

However, if like the RIAA and MPAA going after every single dime like corporate justice warriors, people can and will crack the DRM and share content or simply look elsewhere.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#182
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems self-evidently unharmful, in that we appear to be in a golden era of delivering content online so extraordinary that it threatens traditional television networks. I understand that this is an extremely unpopular sentiment on HN, but here goes: at least with respect to video content, the industry seems to have largely proven DRM concerns unfounded. Update: modulo the Hickson concerns below. Continuing: DRM ce…

The really insane part is that the DRM is pointless anyway, you can go onto any file sharing/streaming site within minutes of a Netflix release dropping and it's there in HD. I still maintain my netflix account 1) because my mum uses it with her Roku and 2) because they should be paid for providing value and good TV. I have the technical skills (like nearly all HN readers I'd imagine) to stream whatever I want with e…

> The really insane part is that the DRM is pointless anyway

DRM may be pointless if you think its main goal is a way to prevent people from watching content they did not directly pay for.

But that is missing the point. It does not matter that you, an individual, can break it. It's a divide and conquer strategy: we as a community have to follow the rules and that's what matters.

DRM is about and has been extremely successful at giving content owners leverage over playback devices (you effectively cannot ship a playback device at any real scale without following the rules the content owners set) and transitively to players down the content pipe. That is why it is evil. It's the most clear manifestation of an unjust instrument of power over the user, to put it in Stallman words.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#183
post #95

Shame, shame, shame. We're losing the internet day by day, if we haven't done so already. I've seen people and posts here and there calling for attention on these issues, but imho it's all too subtle. We should start using harsher terminology for what's actually happening. This is flat out CORRUPTION, and I'm not seeing anyone express it as such. It's probably too late already, and unfortunately, this is merely a ref…

Capitalism at work - a handful of ultra-rich guys winning even more ground over common folks again.

Who are the "common folk" in this?

(Complex issue but I'm not sure I see your point)

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#184
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hogwash, there is more open source software now then ever before.

What's important is not what software exists somewhere where somebody could theoretically download and use it, but what software actually gets used. Most users don't even know what open source software is, much less where to find any; they use what comes with either Windows or OS X or their smartphone. Also, your software can be as open source as you like, but if it can't interoperate with the rest of the Internet, i…

> Most users don't even know what open source software is, much less where to find any; they use what comes with either Windows or OS X or their smartphone.

This is an educational issue at the social level. The technology is still available.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#185
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's going to happen without a standard? A bunch of proprietary plugins?

Umm that is what is happening WITH the standard I still can not believe the number of people that do not understand what EME is EME enabled Properiertary Plugins, it gives control over the web to MS, Google, and Adobe. Full Stop. They will control everything. Widevine, Adobe CDM, and MS PlayReady. Those are your proprietary EME plugins that everyone must use now Welcome to the non-open Web Thanks Tim berners-lee, goo…

There was a bunch of proprietary plugins before EME was even on the horizon.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the W3C is the web. You'd be forking to what? This was basically wanted by Firefox, Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are the modern web. Trying to go against them is how we ended up with XHTML, a standard no-one really wanted, or implemented.

> This was basically wanted by Firefox, Apple, Microsoft and Google. This was absolutely NOT wanted by Firefox. They were the only browser to represent the users in this fight. Don't put Mozilla in the same group as those other traitors.

> They were the only browser to represent the users in this fight.

They were folding, too.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#187

I'm a bit uneducated when it comes to the cryptography involved, but I'm wondering why people here are so determined DRM can't ever work? Is it because someone will somehow get a copy and upload to torrents/streaming sites which of course won't have DRM. Thus only potentially annoying legitimate (eg. Netflix) users? Or are there other concerns?

Cryptogtaphically speaking, what is DRM. We want to give an untrusted user access to content, so that they can see it, without giving them access to the content, so they cannot copy it. This is simply impossible in theory. In practice, we can make copying it difficult, possibly resorting to hardware support (so decryption happens in the monitor) and rely on the DMCA to make any attempts to break DRM illegal. Of cours…

Even if everyone were to replace their hardware for DRM-friendly monitors, you can bet that in a week the market will be flooded by chinese made hardware dongles that allows you to bypass it.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#188
post #97

Tim Berners-Lee must be rolling in his grave.

Tim Berners-Lee isn't dead. And if you read the article, you'll see that he was actually the one who originally overrode the EFF's objections to publishing a DRM standard in the first place.

I think you missed the sarcasm.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#189
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s actively against their interests. Their interest is in letting people use their browsers to view content. The media companies have made it clear that’s not happening without DRM. So the browser companies support it. It’s not manditory , you can ship content without it. But if Chrome said ‘DRM free only’ all that would happen is people would abandon it to be able to watch video online. If you don’t like DRM then…

> The media companies have made it clear that’s not happening without DRM. If people were actively boycotting anything that uses DRM and were bawling out media companies that use DRM, there would soon appear media companies that provide a "no-DRM media package". As soon as these companies were making big money with DRM-free content, I am pretty sure the large media companies would in the long run give up their stupid…

Yes, if you can achieve a massive boycott you might see some success. I don't see anything like a broad-based movement to that end going on right now.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they do that? Are you assuming these companies will want to block Linux users out of some random, malicious spite?

No. For simple economic reasons, such as too much testing effort vs. too little revenue.

For "simple economic reasons" you believe companies will go out of their way to block Linux users for some reason? If the browser supports it, that's all that really matters.
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