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W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

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Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#101

Post by CJefferson »

wolfgke wrote: post #71
sboselli wrote: post #38

Shame, shame, shame. We're losing the internet day by day, if we haven't done so already. I've seen people and posts here and there calling for attention on these issues, but imho it's all too subtle. We should start using harsher terminology for what's actually happening. This is flat out CORRUPTION, and I'm not seeing anyone express it as such. It's probably too late already, and unfortunately, this is merely a ref…

> We're losing the internet day by day, if we haven't done so already. Let's just "fork" the web from W3C (or 3WC as some people like to call them by now) instead.

No, the W3C is the web. You'd be forking to what?

This was basically wanted by Firefox, Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are the modern web. Trying to go against them is how we ended up with XHTML, a standard no-one really wanted, or implemented.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#102

Post by tptacek »

noir_lord wrote: post #88
tptacek wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems self-evidently unharmful, in that we appear to be in a golden era of delivering content online so extraordinary that it threatens traditional television networks. I understand that this is an extremely unpopular sentiment on HN, but here goes: at least with respect to video content, the industry seems to have largely proven DRM concerns unfounded. Update: modulo the Hickson concerns below. Continuing: DRM ce…

The really insane part is that the DRM is pointless anyway, you can go onto any file sharing/streaming site within minutes of a Netflix release dropping and it's there in HD. I still maintain my netflix account 1) because my mum uses it with her Roku and 2) because they should be paid for providing value and good TV. I have the technical skills (like nearly all HN readers I'd imagine) to stream whatever I want with e…

I'm an admirer of well-done DRM technology but I think I agree with the subtext here, which is that DRM doesn't have much of a future. Ironically, the thing that is likely to end DRM is standardized DRM. By making it easier for technology/content companies to deal in premium content, content providers are making it easier to compete with them for their middleman role in funding content.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#103

Post by jxcole »

sev wrote: post #82

DRM can't work in theory, but it is working in practice. If someone writes a piece of software that allows downloading of DRM-ed content (without losing quality, and playable anytime) from the big names (Netflix, Amazon, etc), then this battle would be won.

Not by a long shot. Where would you put this solution once you found it? Github? Npm? Of course corporations will sue these organizations out of existence for hosting a DRM work around, so they won't be able to host it. So at the end unless you can find some cool Russian hosting (a la sci-hub) you are straight out of luck.

The real problem is not creating a solution, but finding somewhere to put it that people can actually get to.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#105

Post by josteink »

vkou wrote: post #94
wolfgke wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're losing the internet day by day, if we haven't done so already. Let's just "fork" the web from W3C (or 3WC as some people like to call them by now) instead.

Great, I'm sure the enterprises on the W3C who voted for this will jump on board. Oh, you mean I can't get Netflix on the forked internet? Welp, back to mainline.

For me it's the other way around.

Netflix is on the other side? Cancel 'em.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#106

Post by jacamat »

emodendroket wrote: post #96
wolfgke wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's going to happen without a standard? A bunch of proprietary plugins? What is supposed to be happen is a zero-tolerance and active fightback against anything DRM-related in the web - be it in the browser or be it a plugin.

You can't really expect companies like Google, Microsoft, or Apple to take up that mantle -- why would they, when it's not in their interests? If you actually want to fix the problem you probably need to hit the regulatory levers.

How is it not in their interests?

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#108

Post by 5ilv3r »

jhallenworld wrote: post #72
Accacin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DRM doesn't and will never work. It only serves to annoy people that pay for the movie/game/whatever legitimately. It's against everything the W3C stands for. You dont' have to support something just because it's happening. You fight it, you don't give into it.

>will never work As in it can't be secure? Well it's tied in with trusted computing, see this Widevine document: https://storage.googleapis.com/wvdocs/Widevine_DRM_Architect... If all of the decryption takes place in a "trusted zone" on "your" device, then it's pretty secure.

Those are known to be exploitable though...

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#109

Post by justinjlynn »

CJefferson wrote: post #101
wolfgke wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're losing the internet day by day, if we haven't done so already. Let's just "fork" the web from W3C (or 3WC as some people like to call them by now) instead.

No, the W3C is the web. You'd be forking to what? This was basically wanted by Firefox, Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are the modern web. Trying to go against them is how we ended up with XHTML, a standard no-one really wanted, or implemented.

Actually, no. The Web is more an API for browsers at this point than anything. The W3C is, well, secondary, if browser manufacturers get behind another body - it'll happen.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#110

Post by epistasis »

wolfgke wrote: post #85
emodendroket wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's going to happen without a standard? A bunch of proprietary plugins?

> What's going to happen without a standard? A bunch of proprietary plugins? What is supposed to be happen is a zero-tolerance and active fightback against anything DRM-related in the web - be it in the browser or be it a plugin.

That's a big shift from historical standards. Where has the pushback been for plugins that permitted DRM? Or from allowing them in, say Firefox?

I'm wondering why this proposal gets so much more attention than all the past DRM that's been on the web. Did people just not realize that it was there?

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