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W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

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Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#91
post #66
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems self-evidently unharmful, in that we appear to be in a golden era of delivering content online so extraordinary that it threatens traditional television networks. I understand that this is an extremely unpopular sentiment on HN, but here goes: at least with respect to video content, the industry seems to have largely proven DRM concerns unfounded. Update: modulo the Hickson concerns below. Continuing: DRM ce…

I think you're discounting the opportunity cost here. In a world where browser manufacturers, as a block, refused to implement DRM, it's seems obvious that sooner or later visual media producers would be forced to the table, to gain access to paying consumers. We could be in a DRM-free world, without the inconveniences of elaborate technical restrictions on pass-through and mutual device compatibility, or black box b…

I see how that gets us to a DRM-free world, but not so much why ordinary consumers would care. To a first approximation, no ordinary consumer uses TPB. Unauthorized copies are less convenient (especially since mainstream playback devices won't play them) and frequently of lower quality. The price point for legitimate copies is low enough that the purchase decision isn't that hard.

A standards body is a great place to achieve consensus around a negotiating position, but a pretty big chunk of this standards body doesn't want the negotiating position you want.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#92
So let me get this straight...

My graphics processor supports this encryption. My monitor supports this encryption. My kernel supports this encryption. And we're going to draw the line at EME-- the glue that sits between my web browser and all of this infrastructure? That's the line that we just can't afford to cross?

It's not the fault of the consumer for purchasing hardware that supports this stuff? It's not the fault of the OS developers for supporting it? It's squarely on the W3C and browser vendors for making it accessible?

Seems to me like the EFF is going full Stallman for no actual purpose, and to the detriment of their reputation and role in future W3C discussions.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#93

Whenever compromise fails, both sides blame the other for refusing to give any ground. Obviously browser vendors have a lot more power than the EFF does, and don't necessarily need to compromise as much to get what they want. But I'm curious, for their part, did the EFF actually offer any compromises in defense of consensus? Edit: You guys are totally right, I missed it in the original article. Shame on me.

The article talks about a compromise that the EFF proposed and saw rejected.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#94
post #71

Shame, shame, shame. We're losing the internet day by day, if we haven't done so already. I've seen people and posts here and there calling for attention on these issues, but imho it's all too subtle. We should start using harsher terminology for what's actually happening. This is flat out CORRUPTION, and I'm not seeing anyone express it as such. It's probably too late already, and unfortunately, this is merely a ref…

> We're losing the internet day by day, if we haven't done so already. Let's just "fork" the web from W3C (or 3WC as some people like to call them by now) instead.

Great, I'm sure the enterprises on the W3C who voted for this will jump on board.

Oh, you mean I can't get Netflix on the forked internet? Welp, back to mainline.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#95

Shame, shame, shame. We're losing the internet day by day, if we haven't done so already. I've seen people and posts here and there calling for attention on these issues, but imho it's all too subtle. We should start using harsher terminology for what's actually happening. This is flat out CORRUPTION, and I'm not seeing anyone express it as such. It's probably too late already, and unfortunately, this is merely a ref…

Capitalism at work - a handful of ultra-rich guys winning even more ground over common folks again.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#96
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's going to happen without a standard? A bunch of proprietary plugins?

> What's going to happen without a standard? A bunch of proprietary plugins? What is supposed to be happen is a zero-tolerance and active fightback against anything DRM-related in the web - be it in the browser or be it a plugin.

You can't really expect companies like Google, Microsoft, or Apple to take up that mantle -- why would they, when it's not in their interests? If you actually want to fix the problem you probably need to hit the regulatory levers.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#98
post #36

On one hand, this is terrible for freedom in our software; on the other, this isn't the "death of the open Web" that some are proclaiming. The media groups want DRM and they will get it. This doesn't mean that we are going to lose all freedom on the Web. It's a step in that direction, certainly, but we're sure as heck not there yet.

But how long will it take for websites to be delivered with DRM so they can't be archived,scraped, saved to disk, screenshot, etc?

I agree that it's "only" a step in that direction, but this can snowball and get ugly pretty fast.

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be easy to view but hard to save and distribute. Why can't it? Or do you really think these people have no idea what they're taking about?

> Why can't it? They've been trying to accomplish this for many years now, to no avail. This is a nontrivial problem.

>> It could be easy to view but hard to save and distribute. Why can't it?

> They've been trying to accomplish this for many years now, to no avail.

Any evidence that they haven't had any success whatsoever in making it harder to save/distribute?

Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns

#100
post #71

Shame, shame, shame. We're losing the internet day by day, if we haven't done so already. I've seen people and posts here and there calling for attention on these issues, but imho it's all too subtle. We should start using harsher terminology for what's actually happening. This is flat out CORRUPTION, and I'm not seeing anyone express it as such. It's probably too late already, and unfortunately, this is merely a ref…

> We're losing the internet day by day, if we haven't done so already. Let's just "fork" the web from W3C (or 3WC as some people like to call them by now) instead.

And which browsers are going on this fork?
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