Ideally all content publishers start to really depend on this "feature" and then one or two of the major browser vendors a few years down the line suddenly stop enforcing any restriction the DRM had. Now the publishers have to spend a bunch of money to move back to the plugin style DRM.
W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns
21–30 of 1001 posts
Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns
#22So this is how the open web dies. Can we fork the W3C into a non-corporate puppet now?
DRM was coming to browsers with or without the W3C’s blessing. In fact, it was already there via plugins and wasn’t going away. This has changed nothing except where the implementation is documented. The hysteria over this is just ridiculous.
DRM doesn't and will never work. It only serves to annoy people that pay for the movie/game/whatever legitimately. It's against everything the W3C stands for.
You dont' have to support something just because it's happening. You fight it, you don't give into it.
Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns
#23So this is how the open web dies. Can we fork the W3C into a non-corporate puppet now?
I think that W3C is what makes us believe we're sitting at the table when it comes to decide where the web is heading, when in reality we're not. So while I think W3C has good intentions and is acting in good faith (I'm somewhat undecided on DRM, please convince me of your opinion), I hope for a push to bring the lack of stewardship of the web to public attention, and another standards body (ISO/IEC, IETF, whatever),…
> convince me
In case you haven't read this excellent piece against DRM - https://archive.org/details/InformationDoesntWantToBeFree
Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns
#24Basically, unless you are writing a browser with decent marketshare, you defacto have no voice in making the standards. Basically, the only voices that matter are Mozilla (Firefox), Apple (Safari), Google(Chrome), and Microsoft (Edge/Explorer). Despite what any standard says, web developers are going to go by the behavior of the browsers do. The only company on the list of browser makers that really has any desire to…
I would suggest not underestimating Mozilla's market influence. It would be possible to create a browser that displays DRM content and ignores DRM. The only thing that content publishers could do is ban that browser. And then it would adapt to disguise itself as other browsers. DRM on the web can only happen if all of the major players (that is, browser publishers) agree to play along. I am very excited about this ne…
[deleted]
Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
DRM was coming to browsers with or without the W3C’s blessing. In fact, it was already there via plugins and wasn’t going away. This has changed nothing except where the implementation is documented. The hysteria over this is just ridiculous.
DRM doesn't and will never work. It only serves to annoy people that pay for the movie/game/whatever legitimately. It's against everything the W3C stands for. You dont' have to support something just because it's happening. You fight it, you don't give into it.
I think you mean "against everything the W3C used to stand for" here.
Clearly they stand for DRM now.
Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns
#26So this is how the open web dies. Can we fork the W3C into a non-corporate puppet now?
Will it matter? Any organization created to manage web standards is going to be dependent on browser vendors. Google/Microsoft/Apple want DRM so we get DRM.
Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns
#27Doesn't Firefox block DRM content by default? If they continue to do so, and if Chrome does so, then this shouldn't have much effect. If most peoples browsers block it, apps shouldn't use it.
I just created a new Firefox profile (v55.0.3, current stable), and the "Play DRM content" setting is enabled by default.
You may be thinking of the Flash plugin, which I believe Firefox and Chrome both do block by default and have done so for a while now.
Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns
#28Basically, unless you are writing a browser with decent marketshare, you defacto have no voice in making the standards. Basically, the only voices that matter are Mozilla (Firefox), Apple (Safari), Google(Chrome), and Microsoft (Edge/Explorer). Despite what any standard says, web developers are going to go by the behavior of the browsers do. The only company on the list of browser makers that really has any desire to…
This is really the issue. If we could convince media rightsholders that DRM is harmful and unnecessary then all of this heartache wouldn't be necessary. I don't expect this to happen in my lifetime. Any slight glimmer of hope from Apple ditching DRM on iTunes has died as nobody else shows the slightest interest in following their lead.
It seems self-evidently unharmful, in that we appear to be in a golden era of delivering content online so extraordinary that it threatens traditional television networks.
I understand that this is an extremely unpopular sentiment on HN, but here goes: at least with respect to video content, the industry seems to have largely proven DRM concerns unfounded.
Update: modulo the Hickson concerns below. Continuing:
DRM certainly has kept some (power) user-friendly features off the market. You can take this as a serious harm inflicted by DRM. But I don't think it's reasonable to take that harm in isolation; the alternative isn't simply a world with no such limitations, but also a world with less content made available online.
But I don't see a lot of evidence that those limitations, if genuinely important to users, can't be competed away. The restrictions might be dealbreakers for Paramount, but in 2017, Netflix can route around Paramount.
Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns
#29Basically, unless you are writing a browser with decent marketshare, you defacto have no voice in making the standards. Basically, the only voices that matter are Mozilla (Firefox), Apple (Safari), Google(Chrome), and Microsoft (Edge/Explorer). Despite what any standard says, web developers are going to go by the behavior of the browsers do. The only company on the list of browser makers that really has any desire to…
This is really the issue. If we could convince media rightsholders that DRM is harmful and unnecessary then all of this heartache wouldn't be necessary. I don't expect this to happen in my lifetime. Any slight glimmer of hope from Apple ditching DRM on iTunes has died as nobody else shows the slightest interest in following their lead.
It's not harmful to them. I suggest reading this if you haven't already: https://plus.google.com/+IanHickson/posts/iPmatxBYuj2
Re: W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns
#30Doesn't Firefox block DRM content by default? If they continue to do so, and if Chrome does so, then this shouldn't have much effect. If most peoples browsers block it, apps shouldn't use it.
Google wants DRM.