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Cutting your salary by 40%

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Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#131

Post by Joe-Z »

jnordwick wrote: post #124
Joe-Z wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go for it! I'm working a 30-hour week right now. Like you, I feel even 40 hours/week of pure coding ist just not sustainable. Out of the 3 software dev jobs I had up to this point all the people that 'worked' over-time were just wasting more time drinking coffee and chit-chatting with colleagues. Most of the time I just want to put in a productive day, solve 1 or 2 problems and then go home at a reasonable time, so I…

> I'd actually be willing to work a 40-hour week again, but only if my job then gives me responsibilies beyond just being a coder. Why would they do that? You don't seem to have shown any initiative or demonstrated how well you would take on extra responsibility.

I'm sorry, but do you know anything about my work as a coder besides that I work 30 hours a week?

I bet you, if you were to ask my boss if I've proven a valuable asset to the company he would sing you a song of praise for my work.

Working long hours isn't everything.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#132

Post by Retric »

jackschultz wrote: post #123

I always see posts like this, talking about the negativity of long working hours, but I do get curious the percentage of jobs in each of the categories. Categories like: - Forcing only 40 hour work weeks - Not forcing, but expecting 40 hour work weeks - Not forcing, but expecting overtime work weeks - Forcing (or talking positively about) over 40 hour work weeks All the blog posts and comments talk about how necessar…

In government consulting at large companies it's very common for people to work ~40-44 hours a week including lunch. I often see people work less than 40 hours if you exclude lunch breaks.

It's not uncommon for people to have literally nothing to do for long stretches while say waiting for clearance paperwork / between contracts / etc.

Sure, you get paid less but cost of living is also less and frankly your often working on things more important than selling Ad's.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#133

Post by ramblerman »

jnordwick wrote: post #124
Joe-Z wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go for it! I'm working a 30-hour week right now. Like you, I feel even 40 hours/week of pure coding ist just not sustainable. Out of the 3 software dev jobs I had up to this point all the people that 'worked' over-time were just wasting more time drinking coffee and chit-chatting with colleagues. Most of the time I just want to put in a productive day, solve 1 or 2 problems and then go home at a reasonable time, so I…

> I'd actually be willing to work a 40-hour week again, but only if my job then gives me responsibilies beyond just being a coder. Why would they do that? You don't seem to have shown any initiative or demonstrated how well you would take on extra responsibility.

How do you know?

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#134

Post by wiredfool »

slaunchwise wrote: post #120
jnordwick wrote: post #112

What many here dont seem to understand is that you work commensurate with where you want to be. I work longish hours become I'm in finance and want to move up the organization or find a higher spot inn another. I want to know more about all facets of the firm and one day be a principal in a prop trading firm. I don't put in 80+ hour weeks because I want to stay where I'm at in my career. I become involved in more and…

Pro tip for getting ahead: learn the difference between 'commiserate' and 'commensurate'. Otherwise you will be unintentionally funny.

Perhaps it's the sleep deprivation showing.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#135

Post by auserperson »

autokad wrote: post #92
Ascetik wrote: post #10

To add to this, I recently got let go from my job 2 weeks ago . With that said, my boss routinely tried to guilt trip me because I didn't want to work more than 40hrs a week. I have 2 very small children and my wife is pregnant, I can't spend all my time working, nor do I have any desire to. There were a few times I put in a couple of 60hr weeks, but that was only to appease him, not because I felt it was necessary.…

imagine if a supervisor said "Time to put on your big-boy pants" to a woman. that'd be front page stuff.

actually that kinda shit happens very often and very rarely make the front page stuff.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#136

Post by Asdfbla »

Not that I would strive for it myself, but I think at least it was honest that the job posting was upfront about the requirements instead of being silent about it and then peer-pressuring the employee into 70 hour work weeks anyway because everyone there does it.

Who knows, maybe being upfront about it causes the applicants for the job to self-select for those who are confident that they can productively work 70 hours? Maybe the research only applies to normal people like us and the mythical super engineer they are looking for can do it (pure speculation, I don't know the research - I guess even super programmers have biological limits).

Then again, it's probably right to be wary of such job postings so that they don't create a general atmosphere in the industry that such working hours are necessary, whether you want it or not.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#137

Post by atstartup5252 »

I work at a startup now in a leadership role. I am not a founder and I get paid less than I could make elsewhere while doing more work. However, working in a large company is not an alternative for me. Whenever I do I lose my motivation and phone it in, which damages my mental health because I feel like I can and should be doing more to keep my brain active. There is more time for R&R but something deep inside me is unfulfilled and I break down. I need the action and adventure of a risky bet. If I'm not fighting for my life then there's no fun in it. I'm going to spend a third of my life working regardless, so I want it to be exciting and interesting enough to keep me motivated.

I'm getting to the point in this company where the risk is almost gone and all that remains is work, and the closer we get to that point the less interested I am in the business. I'm sure it will feel nice when we're consistently profitable and can hire more, delegate, etc., but it loses something at that point too. I won't be as hands-on, will have to work harder to whip the team into moving in the right direction, we'll be moving slower even if we're accumulating capital... Not my cup of tea. I find myself exploring side contracts, ideas for my own businesses, grad school, thoughts of alternative lifestyles that might make my wife and I happier... Fewer hours worked is part of that, I'd LOVE to have more time to learn and play, but it's hard to get there without putting in the effort upfront. The main thing that keeps me where I am is that I've spent years shaping my role into one where I can learn exactly what I want to learn, and I'm on the precipice of being able to finally do that. That's not something one gives up easily.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#138

Post by chii »

soVeryTired wrote: post #129
mcv wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm working 32 hours: 4 days a week. That leaves me a day with the kids outside the weekend. Oldest kid is at school most of the day, so I take the youngest to the zoo or something. I heartily recommend it. It's crazy that we're all still working 40 hours a week. Didn't Keynes promise we'd have 15 hour work weeks by now? (He did. He didn't anticipate our bosses taking all the profits from our productivity gains, thou…

>He didn't anticipate our bosses taking all the profits from our productivity gains, though. He also didn't anticipate zero-sum competition for inflexible goods like housing. If I want a nice house in a decent city, I have to out-compete and out-borrow everyone else who might want that house. If everyone around me is making bank and I want the nice house, then I'd better make bank too. Lots of us end up working more…

> zero-sum competition for inflexible goods

if you consider good housing to be only within a certain distance of some CBD, then yes, housing is zero sum. But there's lots more space available than humans right now, and relaxing the distance/centrality requirement will greatly increase the pool of available housing (and hence, "cheaper").

The only winner when everyone tries to outbid for a small amount of housing is the original owners.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#139

Post by steventhedev »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #91
dagw wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because 40 hours was quite simply discovered to be a more productive length of day That was true when most of the workforce was doing manual and factory style labour. To the best of my knowledge it hasn't been rigorously reproduced for works that spend their days staring at a screen thinking.

And if it's not been rigorously tested, then there doesn't seem to be any strong case to assume that the ideal number for office work is higher, rather than lower, than 40. I'm also wondering how commute time (and method of commute) factors into this. Does 30 minutes of physically strenuous cycling before/after work have a positive or negative impact on office workers? Does the same time spent in a car navigating sto…

I recall reading somewhere that one of the best predictors of employee turnover is commute length. But that was for call center employees, and I can't recall where I read that, so take it with a grain of salt.

Anecdotally, I once moved from having an hour long commute to a 5 minutes walk from work. I did end up leaving, but I feel that I enjoyed life much more living close to the office. Getting an extra two hours every day allowed me to enjoy life much more.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#140

Post by huebnerob »

jnordwick wrote: post #112

What many here dont seem to understand is that you work commensurate with where you want to be. I work longish hours become I'm in finance and want to move up the organization or find a higher spot inn another. I want to know more about all facets of the firm and one day be a principal in a prop trading firm. I don't put in 80+ hour weeks because I want to stay where I'm at in my career. I become involved in more and…

We're all quite familiar with the idea that working long hours gets you brownie points with your managers. The point that's being made here is that companies should not be so proud of this quid pro quo, because on paper it is quite literally a devaluation of your time.

You feeling you need to work excessive hours to progress in your career does not make anything about it right, quite the opposite actually.

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