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What the World’s Emptiest International Airport Says About China’s Influence

nytimes.com

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Re: What the World’s Emptiest International Airport Says About China’s Influence

#91

Post by [deleted] »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #51
hyperdunc wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China does a similar thing with agriculture. Huge plots of land in Australia and New Zealand are controlled by Chinese farming companies and staffed by Chinese. All the food they produce goes back to China.

You want to cite a source on that? Somewhere between 5-10% of NZ farmland and forestry is owned by foreign interests. That's not just China, but all other countries, of which Australia is a large investor in NZ. A large amount of this land is owned by super funds. Fonterra has an 84% market share in the dairy sector, Fonterra is a collective, owned by the individual farms. Now, the Chinese are building milk powder fa…

[deleted]

Re: What the World’s Emptiest International Airport Says About China’s Influence

#92

Post by fatman13gg »

scandox wrote: post #89

Found this quote from Ai Weiwei in yesterday's Guardian very interesting: “Can China be a global power? I don’t think so. It can gain an advantage, that’s true. But it doesn’t have soul. It doesn’t have heart. It doesn’t trust its own people. So it has no self-identity in the sense that it has never accepted human rights as common values. No freedom of speech, no independent judicial system. If those don’t exist, how…

Why having freedom of speech, independent judicial system and accepting human rights as common values has to be the prerequisites of being a global power? Technically if you are rich and powerful then you are a global power.

Edit: sensing lots of incoming downvotes. Point is that democracy may not be the only way to global power.

Re: What the World’s Emptiest International Airport Says About China’s Influence

#93

Post by grecy »

princeb wrote: post #10

A number of Chinese businesses are setting up 100%-Chinese factory compounds overseas. These compounds are located in a foreign country, but they are fully financed by Chinese, built by Chinese, employ only Chinese, have accommodation for the Chinese employees, have a completely sustaining internal economy where employees can buy food and entertainment and send mail, posts, banking, remittance, insurance, through Chi…

I have seen more of these than I can count in West Africa, and I am told the same is true in the East (I am going there next).

The scale of construction here is staggering - I wrote a little about it [1]. It is not only roads - it's dams, deep water ports, high-rise buildings, etc. Basically anything that requires a high degree of competency in engineering.

Western governments are now held to account when they make deals with African countries - the country must have fair votes, human rights, free speech etc. As you might guess, many African countries are not so hot on this.

China? They couldn't care less, and have no such requirements, so African governments are much happier to deal with them.

[1] http://theroadchoseme.com/chinese-road-construction

Re: What the World’s Emptiest International Airport Says About China’s Influence

#94

Post by grecy »

fatman13gg wrote: post #92
scandox wrote: post #89

Found this quote from Ai Weiwei in yesterday's Guardian very interesting: “Can China be a global power? I don’t think so. It can gain an advantage, that’s true. But it doesn’t have soul. It doesn’t have heart. It doesn’t trust its own people. So it has no self-identity in the sense that it has never accepted human rights as common values. No freedom of speech, no independent judicial system. If those don’t exist, how…

Why having freedom of speech, independent judicial system and accepting human rights as common values has to be the prerequisites of being a global power? Technically if you are rich and powerful then you are a global power. Edit: sensing lots of incoming downvotes. Point is that democracy may not be the only way to global power.

I'm not sure why you are being downvoted, you are absolutely correct.

I would argue that many of the world's billionaires are not particularly nice people, but that doesn't stop them being immensely rich and powerful.

I see no reason the same can't be true for a country. If it has an immense amount of wealth, it will be powerful, irrelevant of human rights, etc.

Re: What the World’s Emptiest International Airport Says About China’s Influence

#95

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

fatman13gg wrote: post #92
scandox wrote: post #89

Found this quote from Ai Weiwei in yesterday's Guardian very interesting: “Can China be a global power? I don’t think so. It can gain an advantage, that’s true. But it doesn’t have soul. It doesn’t have heart. It doesn’t trust its own people. So it has no self-identity in the sense that it has never accepted human rights as common values. No freedom of speech, no independent judicial system. If those don’t exist, how…

Why having freedom of speech, independent judicial system and accepting human rights as common values has to be the prerequisites of being a global power? Technically if you are rich and powerful then you are a global power. Edit: sensing lots of incoming downvotes. Point is that democracy may not be the only way to global power.

In fact, the only global power meeting those prerequisites has arguably been the US (unless you count the EU, but if the EU is a global power then China is too).

The USSR didn't meet them, and before the 20th century no global power was a democracy.

Re: What the World’s Emptiest International Airport Says About China’s Influence

#96

Post by grafporno »

scandox wrote: post #89

Found this quote from Ai Weiwei in yesterday's Guardian very interesting: “Can China be a global power? I don’t think so. It can gain an advantage, that’s true. But it doesn’t have soul. It doesn’t have heart. It doesn’t trust its own people. So it has no self-identity in the sense that it has never accepted human rights as common values. No freedom of speech, no independent judicial system. If those don’t exist, how…

All that didn't stop the soviets from being a global power. Odd sentiment.

Re: What the World’s Emptiest International Airport Says About China’s Influence

#97

Post by jaclaz »

mastazi wrote: post #84
SCdF wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an example of one of these compounds? An article about them?

I have one about Italy http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/13/world/europe/13prato.html

>I have one about Italy

Prato is a case on its own, there is no "large company" or "compound".

The Chinese have come on an individual basis, after the first few came (which dates much before, in the 80's) they brought families, friends, etc., and replaced - little by little - the native artisans (largely in the textile sector).

But even before they arrived, Prato's economy was different from any other Italian textile district, there have been traditionaly very few large factories (there were some, but not like - say -northern Italy), besides the workers in the factories everyone worked in small laboratories or at home, often involving all the family members in the production. (and it was not at all uncommon that factory workers had anyway a couple looms at home that they worked on the evenings or night, while their wives operated them during the day, while doing the normal household chores).

The Chinese simply replaced the natives, adopting the exact same "individual" approach.

Re: What the World’s Emptiest International Airport Says About China’s Influence

#98

Post by whazor »

grecy wrote: post #93
princeb wrote: post #10

A number of Chinese businesses are setting up 100%-Chinese factory compounds overseas. These compounds are located in a foreign country, but they are fully financed by Chinese, built by Chinese, employ only Chinese, have accommodation for the Chinese employees, have a completely sustaining internal economy where employees can buy food and entertainment and send mail, posts, banking, remittance, insurance, through Chi…

I have seen more of these than I can count in West Africa, and I am told the same is true in the East (I am going there next). The scale of construction here is staggering - I wrote a little about it [1]. It is not only roads - it's dams, deep water ports, high-rise buildings, etc. Basically anything that requires a high degree of competency in engineering. Western governments are now held to account when they make d…

Maybe this is better as well, once citizens have more welfare they have more power to acquire human rights.

Re: What the World’s Emptiest International Airport Says About China’s Influence

#99

Post by scandox »

fatman13gg wrote: post #92
scandox wrote: post #89

Found this quote from Ai Weiwei in yesterday's Guardian very interesting: “Can China be a global power? I don’t think so. It can gain an advantage, that’s true. But it doesn’t have soul. It doesn’t have heart. It doesn’t trust its own people. So it has no self-identity in the sense that it has never accepted human rights as common values. No freedom of speech, no independent judicial system. If those don’t exist, how…

Why having freedom of speech, independent judicial system and accepting human rights as common values has to be the prerequisites of being a global power? Technically if you are rich and powerful then you are a global power. Edit: sensing lots of incoming downvotes. Point is that democracy may not be the only way to global power.

I think he's making a deeper point. China can be a global power in the sense that you mean: like just wielding influence in the crudest sense - "an advantage" as he puts it.

He's questioning what the meaning of that is without a real Chinese identity expressed via the people. It's more like the power a business exercises which ultimately may be broken up, bought or which is assimilated into the culture it seeks to alter. Chinese power in this concept would be a superstructure over the world, not a force within it.

By contrast, American influence over time (love it or loathe it) has been culturally formidable because it has a very powerful grassroots (for want of a better word) identity. It is something which has taken possession of the world from the ground up.

Re: What the World’s Emptiest International Airport Says About China’s Influence

#100

Post by grecy »

whazor wrote: post #98
grecy wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen more of these than I can count in West Africa, and I am told the same is true in the East (I am going there next). The scale of construction here is staggering - I wrote a little about it [1]. It is not only roads - it's dams, deep water ports, high-rise buildings, etc. Basically anything that requires a high degree of competency in engineering. Western governments are now held to account when they make d…

Maybe this is better as well, once citizens have more welfare they have more power to acquire human rights.

Who said anything about citizens getting more welfare?

China is stripping these countries bare, and the money goes straight into the pockets of the corrupt ruling class. It is staggering to see the countries with the multi-hundreds-of-billions in resources have the poorest citizens.

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