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The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

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Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#71

Post by adrianratnapala »

rdiddly wrote: post #61
the_evacuator wrote: post #34

My neighborhood Nextdoor is full of NIMBY on this topic. Apparently electrosensitivity afflicts some 90-95% of people who have the free time to go to city council meetings at 3pm on weekdays. Shungite pendants have been recommended to fend off the illnesses caused by radiation. Even the local school does not have wifi because some local bozo said his kids were "injured" by EM fields, not just any fields but specifica…

Technology and "progress" are never without problems or externalities. And residents of MBY are the ones who deserve the right of self-determination regarding said BY. Including evaluating whether they are going to get proportionally enough benefit from a project to justify the costs they will inevitably bear from having it situated there. They have a right to be suspicious of EM radiation, or even downright supersti…

The problem with the term NIMBY is that it isn't really about anyone's back yard. It's about people who live somewhere trying to control what happens on nearby property.

You are trying to have it both ways by talking about both externalities and "self-determination regarding said BY". The latter makes if you are only "saying respect property" rights: let people have as many voodoo charms and do as crystal-power-empathetic-gardening as they like.

But if you say that their complaints can override the rights of others because of externalities, then there must be a rational case about about those externalities. Harm from radio waves doesn't have much rational case behind it.

Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#72

Post by jcims »

wbl wrote: post #62
tzs wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a couple of known mechanisms by which non-ionizing electromagnetic radiation can be dangerous to biological systems. One is by heating of tissue caused by absorption of EM radiation. This one can probably be safely ignored in almost all normal situations. Another is by inducing currents and fields in parts of the organism which could disrupt normal operation. For example, DNA is conductive, and its shape ma…

There is a basic physical issue here. For an EM wave to induce any sort of voltage difference across the length of a DNA molecule it would have have a wavelength on the order of that molecule's size.

Uncoiled, DNA is about 2m long.

Hmmm, better not get that kilowatt kicker amp for my baofeng.

Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#73

Post by jcims »

QAPereo wrote: post #49
reportingsjr wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are footing the bill for them to live there already. Rural areas are subsidized an incredible amount to our severe detriment. There is almost no decent forested area I can get to in the Midwest and it is only getting worse. Pollution is getting worse as people move further out. People are trapped and either have to get an expensive car or deal with riding poorly set up transit for hours a day. It is ridiculous.

So it's not that they're free to move, it's just that you resent their very existence.

I live out in the boonies. There is a strong percentage of people on sites like this (reddit in particular) that think I'm some kind of geoboomer for not selling my home and renting a sixth story apartment in an urban setting.

The fact that I selected to live here also makes me an uneducated bigot that hates brown folks and will almost certainly re-up in ~38 months.

Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#74

Post by [deleted] »

fourthark wrote: post #65
superkuh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a big change. Telco-provided wireless internet connections are not actually real internet connections. Half the time you don't even get a real routable IP address and nearly 100% of the time you don't get ports or even the ability to forward them. And that's not even mentioning the horrible data transfer limits and traffic shaping. Whereas home connections are real, have real IPs, and have full ports that you co…

So... back to Ethernet?

[deleted]

Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#75

Post by CamperBob2 »

jcims wrote: post #72
wbl wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a basic physical issue here. For an EM wave to induce any sort of voltage difference across the length of a DNA molecule it would have have a wavelength on the order of that molecule's size.

Uncoiled, DNA is about 2m long. Hmmm, better not get that kilowatt kicker amp for my baofeng.

Coiled up in a bag of salt water, it's not going to be a very good antenna...

Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#76

Post by CalRobert »

the_evacuator wrote: post #34

My neighborhood Nextdoor is full of NIMBY on this topic. Apparently electrosensitivity afflicts some 90-95% of people who have the free time to go to city council meetings at 3pm on weekdays. Shungite pendants have been recommended to fend off the illnesses caused by radiation. Even the local school does not have wifi because some local bozo said his kids were "injured" by EM fields, not just any fields but specifica…

Wait until they find out particulate air pollution can do! Or am I correct in guessing they haven't worried about the obvious large risks present already in everyday life?

Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#77

Post by msh »

rdiddly wrote: post #61
the_evacuator wrote: post #34

My neighborhood Nextdoor is full of NIMBY on this topic. Apparently electrosensitivity afflicts some 90-95% of people who have the free time to go to city council meetings at 3pm on weekdays. Shungite pendants have been recommended to fend off the illnesses caused by radiation. Even the local school does not have wifi because some local bozo said his kids were "injured" by EM fields, not just any fields but specifica…

Technology and "progress" are never without problems or externalities. And residents of MBY are the ones who deserve the right of self-determination regarding said BY. Including evaluating whether they are going to get proportionally enough benefit from a project to justify the costs they will inevitably bear from having it situated there. They have a right to be suspicious of EM radiation, or even downright supersti…

Well maybe a start could be not letting them complain about poor coverage.

Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#78

Post by msh »

superkuh wrote: post #52

The important issue here is what exactly do they mean by Fast 5G. In many cases what they mean is femtocells using the very same frequency range as existing consumer wifi routers. The instant one of these femtocells starts operating around wifi the routers in the area will drop thoroughput drastically (ie, 80%+) due to their channel usage sensing. Lets be clear: this is attempt to use capture and use public spectrum…

unlicensed LTE is not needed for 5G, its actually a 4G technology.

You can have 5G without using unlicensed spectrum.

Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#79

Post by superkuh »

msh wrote: post #78
superkuh wrote: post #52

The important issue here is what exactly do they mean by Fast 5G. In many cases what they mean is femtocells using the very same frequency range as existing consumer wifi routers. The instant one of these femtocells starts operating around wifi the routers in the area will drop thoroughput drastically (ie, 80%+) due to their channel usage sensing. Lets be clear: this is attempt to use capture and use public spectrum…

unlicensed LTE is not needed for 5G, its actually a 4G technology. You can have 5G without using unlicensed spectrum.

This article tries to imply that the millimeter wave spectrum was somehow undervalued and that now it will perform magic. But it won't. It's all line of sight and it won't go through walls. So yeah, they'll fall back on to stealing the appropriately highly valued public spectrum.

Re: The Debate Over Neighborhood Zoning Could Hold Up Fast 5G Wireless for Years

#80

Post by martinald »

mikeash wrote: post #55
martinald wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people already do this. If you're a light/occasional internet user it makes way more sense to buy a 5GB/month dongle and use that instead vs getting hard wired broadband. This doesn't even include the fact loads of people only access the internet through a smartphone and not a computer, which means they probably won't bother with hardwired at all. The more difficult is heavy internet users. Considering an LTE…

Several years ago, Clearwire had a WiMAX network which they marketed as an alternative to home broadband in addition to the usual mobile applications. They sold a home modem that looked a lot like a standard cable modem, except there was no cable. They had an unlimited plan and advertised speeds that were not great, but acceptable. (I think 3Mbps? I had 6Mbps from Comcast at the time.) I was so fed up with Comcast at…

Yes, Relish in London tried the same thing. Unlimited plan, advertised up to 50mbit/sec speeds, quickly fell apart, as you're saying sub-dialup speeds at peak times and a mobile operator bought them for the spectrum.
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