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Is There a Cryptocurrency Bubble? Just Ask Doge

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Re: Is There a Cryptocurrency Bubble? Just Ask Doge

#151

Post by JoshuaDavid »

hiram112 wrote: post #101
aplummer wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with what you are saying to an extent (it is just paper), however at a minimum the value of government backed money could possibly be expressed by the mobilisation of resources a government would rally to give it value. Lets say everyone declares USD is worthless, the government could 1) sell things of value demanding explicitly USD in return. 2) Impede movement or other activities, use of public goods using…

I've heard it mentioned various times that a fiat currency's value in any organized society comes from its ability to pay off the controlling state (i.e. taxes). Whether it is dollars to the IRS, colored beads to the local chieftains, or copper coins to the Lord of the manor, it doesn't make a difference. The ability to 'pay off' the state in power, with legal permission and ability to use violence, gives that curren…

So by that token, the ability to pay off ransomware authors gives bitcoin value?

Re: Is There a Cryptocurrency Bubble? Just Ask Doge

#152

Post by koonsolo »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #102
koonsolo wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like downloading movies and mp3's?

...yes? The friction of government control is partly what allows things like Netflix, Hulu, et al to survive. If there were no copyright, then you'd seen tools that were just as good thrive on various p2p backbones. Instead, the pressure from law enforcement on developers, big libraries of content, indexers, etc keeps the experience of for pay sites better for most people, and so most people just pay whatever streami…

I understand that governements need to make these things illegal.

But my point was that even though it's illegal, they can't stop it. One of the game of thrones episodes was on torrent before it even aired.

A governement can make bitcoin illegal. But stop it? No way.

Re: Is There a Cryptocurrency Bubble? Just Ask Doge

#153

Post by tpallarino »

chrishacken wrote: post #55
aml183 wrote: post #41

I have great respect for Kevin Roose, but this was a disappointing piece. Dogecoin was a meme. It gained popularity and is still worth something. Jackson Palmer might not believe it has value, but clearly, there are people who own Doge that think otherwise. There is definite frothiness in the market. Some token sales are scams, some are overpromising, and some that look promising will probably blow up. Take a look at…

What do you do with Dogecoin though? It's market cap is $91MM and yet its creation was a joke.

It's not any fundamentally different than Bitcoin, in fact it's probably better for money laundering than Bitcoin because nobody cares. Furthermore, the market cap was $400MM a few months ago, so does that mean we're still in a "bubble"?

Re: Is There a Cryptocurrency Bubble? Just Ask Doge

#155

Post by topmonk »

lloyd-christmas wrote: post #127
topmonk wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is a bubble. Everyone seems to equate real estate, stocks, and currency as all the same thing. Unlike the first two, currency increases in intrinsic value the more people believe it has value. So saying that how can bitcoin increase 1000x and still not be overvalued, you have to understand that now (people x perceived value) has had to increase 1000x as well. This means the currency is now accepted 1…

This is only true if the people buying it actually think of it and use it as a currency. I own some bitcoin and ether and have never used them as a currency. If its usage is not primarily as a currency, it isn't a currency. I struggle to believe there is more value on a daily basis in transactions of btc for goods and services than there is for "forex".

I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. The reason that USD is used to buy goods and services is not because everyone woke up one day and began to "think of it and use it as a currency".

USD just happens to be the most convenient financial instrument for a lot of people.

The more people that own and value BTC, the more convenient it will become to transact with, the more stores that will accept it, and then people will think of it and use it as a currency (if it succeeds, that is).

Any item of value is priced according to its future utility. So BTC's price now relates to what it's value as a currency will be, adjusted by the probability it will succeed, in the future.

If you don't believe that BTC will ever be used as a currency, then you don't believe in the success of the bitcoin experiment in general, and since that's its only purpose, then of course you would have to conclude its in a bubble. But if you do believe in the success of the experiment, then the price does not seem out of whack at all.

Re: Is There a Cryptocurrency Bubble? Just Ask Doge

#156

Post by aplummer »

JoshuaDavid wrote: post #151
hiram112 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard it mentioned various times that a fiat currency's value in any organized society comes from its ability to pay off the controlling state (i.e. taxes). Whether it is dollars to the IRS, colored beads to the local chieftains, or copper coins to the Lord of the manor, it doesn't make a difference. The ability to 'pay off' the state in power, with legal permission and ability to use violence, gives that curren…

So by that token, the ability to pay off ransomware authors gives bitcoin value?

I think you're right in this case. The ransomware authors functioning similarly to the state. If i couldn't access my computer I would have to buy bitcoins with my other assets.

Re: Is There a Cryptocurrency Bubble? Just Ask Doge

#157

Post by aplummer »

JoshuaDavid wrote: post #151
hiram112 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard it mentioned various times that a fiat currency's value in any organized society comes from its ability to pay off the controlling state (i.e. taxes). Whether it is dollars to the IRS, colored beads to the local chieftains, or copper coins to the Lord of the manor, it doesn't make a difference. The ability to 'pay off' the state in power, with legal permission and ability to use violence, gives that curren…

So by that token, the ability to pay off ransomware authors gives bitcoin value?

Interesting how this works once you go back to currency. This extortion money being "legally" worthless, being the proceeds of crime.

(Illegally obviously worth the picture on the front.)

Re: Is There a Cryptocurrency Bubble? Just Ask Doge

#158

Post by lloyd-christmas »

topmonk wrote: post #155
lloyd-christmas wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only true if the people buying it actually think of it and use it as a currency. I own some bitcoin and ether and have never used them as a currency. If its usage is not primarily as a currency, it isn't a currency. I struggle to believe there is more value on a daily basis in transactions of btc for goods and services than there is for "forex".

I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. The reason that USD is used to buy goods and services is not because everyone woke up one day and began to "think of it and use it as a currency". USD just happens to be the most convenient financial instrument for a lot of people. The more people that own and value BTC, the more convenient it will become to transact with, the more stores that will accept it, and…

> I think you're putting the cart before the horse here.

I'd argue that you are the one doing this. You're labeling something as what you'd like it to be and what it's intended to be, not what it is.

> If you don't believe that BTC will ever be used as a currency, then you don't believe in the success of the bitcoin experiment in general, and since that's its only purpose, then of course you would have to conclude its in a bubble

This is irrelevant to me. If I can profit off something, I don't need to form conclusions as to whether or not it's a bubble or whether or not it will succeed. I worked as an equities trader for half a decade. I didn't need to know the 5 year plan of AMZN before I bought it, nor did I need to know the 5 minute plan of a company stock that dropped 50% in a minute because of one large seller. All I needed was some clue that other people are willing to buy it for more than I did at some point in the future. At this moment in time, that's exactly what BTC is to me. I think it would be neat if it succeeded, but that isn't why I own it at this moment in time.

Re: Is There a Cryptocurrency Bubble? Just Ask Doge

#159

Post by topmonk »

lloyd-christmas wrote: post #158
topmonk wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. The reason that USD is used to buy goods and services is not because everyone woke up one day and began to "think of it and use it as a currency". USD just happens to be the most convenient financial instrument for a lot of people. The more people that own and value BTC, the more convenient it will become to transact with, the more stores that will accept it, and…

> I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. I'd argue that you are the one doing this. You're labeling something as what you'd like it to be and what it's intended to be, not what it is . > If you don't believe that BTC will ever be used as a currency, then you don't believe in the success of the bitcoin experiment in general, and since that's its only purpose, then of course you would have to conclude i…

> I'd argue that you are the one doing this. You're labeling something as what you'd like it to be and what it's intended to be, not what it is.

What does "labeling" mean? I'm just saying the value of cryptocurrency depends on whether in the future it will be used as a currency. If it will, then it's value is much higher than it's current price. If not, then it's value is zero.

> This is irrelevant to me. If I can profit off something, I don't need to form conclusions as to whether or not it's a bubble or whether or not it will succeed.

I thought we were talking about whether crypto is in a bubble or not. No? Then what are you talking about? Irrelevant to what?

Re: Is There a Cryptocurrency Bubble? Just Ask Doge

#160

Post by BrendanEich »

NelsonMinar wrote: post #84
jdormit wrote: post #4

> A group of Bay Area programmers this year used an I.C.O. to raise $35 million for their project, an anonymous web browser called Brave As in Brave, the new browser from Brendan Eich (founder of Mozilla, famously invented JavaScript in 10 days)? Hardly a scam... Either the reporter didn't do their research or twisted the facts to fit their story.

As in Brave, the company whose business model is siphoning ad revenue from publishers.

Don't make stuff up. We never proposed "siphoning" as our default state is blocking. Unless you think users have no rights to block, then enabling automated micro-payments for content is not siphoning "from", it helps publishers.

We talked about indirect ads via Brave, too -- these would pay publishers a greater share than they get from programmatic ads today -- but haven't done them and we won't without publisher opt-in. We're focusing on user-private (not in any publisher ad slot) ads first.

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