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The 'internet of things' is sending us back to the Middle Ages

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Re: The 'internet of things' is sending us back to the Middle Ages

#11
post #9

On the whole I agree with the author, but they have glossed over some things I feel should be addressed: > The computer manufacturer Lenovo, for instance, used to sell its computers with a program called “Superfish” preinstalled. Most "serious" users reformat the machine and re-install the OS to get rid of the OEM included crapware. Not something the average user does, sure, but you're still allowed to re-install the…

> you're still allowed to re-install the OS on a commodity x86 system like a laptop Remember when Microsoft tried to change that with Secure Boot? If it hadn't been for the public outcry in the tech columns, they probably would've proceeded with it.

> Remember when Microsoft tried to change that with Secure Boot? If it hadn't been for the public outcry in the tech columns, they probably would've proceeded with it.

Yes, but Secure Boot doesn't/shouldn't prevent you from re-installing Windows, since Microsoft's Secure Boot keys are installed anyway.

I believe in all but a few cases OEMs have made Secure Boot an optional flag in UEFI, so you can choose to disable it if you want to install another OS such as Linux.

However I am aware of several non-x86 platforms which use Secure Boot to prevent you from installing another OS (e.g. Surface 2)

Re: The 'internet of things' is sending us back to the Middle Ages

#12
The problem is software complexity. You can't really own anything you don't understand, and you can't be free in a world you don't understand. And we don't understand software.

Imagine a naive young king who doesn't understand how to do anything for himself. He will easily be controlled by those around him that do understand the world.

Of course, nobody before ever understood everything about the world. But different people understood different aspects in depth, and education gave literacy so people could share expertise.

Software is so complex that nobody really understands it. Nobody understands how a car works, nobody understands how a phone works, because they are both controlled by hopelessly complex software. Governments can't regulate emissions because the software changes the emissions controls based on arbitrary unknown factors. Security problems are just a small subset of the surprising ways complex software behaves -- surprising even to the software engineers who build it.

And the key is that this is all new complexity that didn't exist before. Physics and biology were developed to understand pre-existing complexity, so we always made forward progress. But we are moving backwards now because we are introducing complexity faster than we are understanding it -- much faster.

Therefore this is actually worse than the naive king mentioned above. In that example, it's just an asymmetry of information, and that can be resolved through education. Software is so complex education can't hope to keep up.

Re: The 'internet of things' is sending us back to the Middle Ages

#13

The problem is software complexity. You can't really own anything you don't understand, and you can't be free in a world you don't understand. And we don't understand software. Imagine a naive young king who doesn't understand how to do anything for himself. He will easily be controlled by those around him that do understand the world. Of course, nobody before ever understood everything about the world. But different…

and much of that complexity, at least on personal computers, gets added in the name of "user friendliness"...

Re: The 'internet of things' is sending us back to the Middle Ages

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The manyfacturerer risks increased liability and bad PR if they let people modify these cars and then they end up in flames. Car modding has gone on for around a century(!) and I can't remember a single instance where someone modified a car, was injured or killed, then blamed the manufacturer, and the latter was found at fault (instead of the modder or driver.) It's just the overreaching paternalism that seems all to…

> Car modding has gone on for around a century(!) Perhaps I'm mistaken, but my impression is that people weren't as litigious in previous decades. > and I can't remember a single instance where someone modified a car, was injured or killed, then blamed the manufacturer, and the latter was found at fault (instead of the modder or driver.) Sure, but for the past century we've had cars which run on flammable liquid and…

I'm not sure which I'd least like to be near a burning tank of gasoline or a burning lithium ion battery.....

Re: The 'internet of things' is sending us back to the Middle Ages

#15

The problem is software complexity. You can't really own anything you don't understand, and you can't be free in a world you don't understand. And we don't understand software. Imagine a naive young king who doesn't understand how to do anything for himself. He will easily be controlled by those around him that do understand the world. Of course, nobody before ever understood everything about the world. But different…

>> But we are moving backwards now because we are introducing complexity faster than we are understanding it -- much faster.

That's a brilliant insight - thank you

Re: The 'internet of things' is sending us back to the Middle Ages

#16

On the whole I agree with the author, but they have glossed over some things I feel should be addressed: > The computer manufacturer Lenovo, for instance, used to sell its computers with a program called “Superfish” preinstalled. Most "serious" users reformat the machine and re-install the OS to get rid of the OEM included crapware. Not something the average user does, sure, but you're still allowed to re-install the…

>> The computer manufacturer Lenovo, for instance, used to sell its computers with a program called “Superfish” preinstalled.

> Most "serious" users reformat the machine and re-install the OS to get rid of the OEM included crapware. [...] It's a matter of inconvenience, not impossibility.

And this is why said Lenovo included the crapware and spyware in non-volatile memory that is executed by Windows boot automatically by design, so your reinstallation doesn't work as intended unless you change the OS you're installing.

Re: The 'internet of things' is sending us back to the Middle Ages

#17
The problem is that hardware manufacturers want to keep collecting income after they have sold the product. Imagine if when you bought a car and paid it off, you still had to pay a fee to the manufacturer for every mile you drove. And ditto anyone you sold you car to. That is what is basically doing on today. Rent-seeking anyone?

Re: The 'internet of things' is sending us back to the Middle Ages

#18
Authored by a law professor.

It is Apple who pioneered this concept of the device that the user really does not own or control - the "smartphone". The computer that remains tethered to the manfacturer continually feeding back user data.

Manufacturer makes replacing the OS difficult. Manufacturer gets root. Manufacturer gets right to modify OS remotely. And no surprise, manuacturer gets plenty of data about users. Manufacturer did not ask for these privileges. They just took them. It was not always this way.

But users accepted it.

And so other companies followed Apple's lead. I find the company's official statements about how they protect privacy to be offensive to common sense.

Want to protect privacy? Stop forcibly collecting any and all data. (Not just "less than so-and-so".)

If users really believe that sending data to Apple will help Apple create the "best experience" then let them opt-in to collection and send it voluntarily.

The users own the device. If they wish untether from Apple's "ecosystem", then that is their right.

There exists at least one user who does not want a company to collect their data, put it on a networked computer and then purport to "protect" it. They want the company to stop collecting their data. Why? Because they have weighed the risks and decided it is not worth it.

IMO the "smartphone" is part of the IoT and was the first "thing". Because it was a thing where software was used to take away some of the control from the owner (control that owners had previously); owners only get partial control.

Going forward, if one is opposed to internet connected things one does not fully control, the solution is not to select the things that collect the least data or that offer the most control. ("I trust Company X because they collect less data than the other companies.") The solution is to choose things that are not internet connected.

Re: The 'internet of things' is sending us back to the Middle Ages

#19
I agree. Copy+pasting an old comment of mine from this old thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12683924

> A general solution to IoT security would be for all IoT devices to only communicate to your personally owned home gateway, which would run open-source drivers for each device to provide the networking/external communication functionality. The IoT device could even be assigned its own isolated network link to the router (i.e. sandboxed).

Re: The 'internet of things' is sending us back to the Middle Ages

#20

Authored by a law professor. It is Apple who pioneered this concept of the device that the user really does not own or control - the "smartphone". The computer that remains tethered to the manfacturer continually feeding back user data. Manufacturer makes replacing the OS difficult. Manufacturer gets root. Manufacturer gets right to modify OS remotely. And no surprise, manuacturer gets plenty of data about users. Man…

Apple collects very little user data. Developers have complained about the limits Apple puts on collecting data and Apple News partners have been quite frustrated. Even the people who originally developed Siri were frustrated by not having access to more user data.

There are plenty of companies like Facebook and Google that have no regard for user privacy but I wouldn't include Apple in that bucket.

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