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Our Approach to Privacy

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Re: Our Approach to Privacy

#101

Post by DavideNL »

jw1224 wrote: post #73
alex_g wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well they decrypt it on your behalf when it's on your device. The point is that couldn't do that without your device/account.

They then go on to say: > While we do back up iMessage and SMS messages for your convenience using iCloud Backup, you can turn it off whenever you want. Sure, I can stop backing my data up - but presuming I don't (like the vast majority of people), does that mean if they got a wiretap order they could just read the data straight from their backup servers? I'm not sure if this was just phrased poorly, or if backing up…

"The iCloud Loophole" (article from March-2016): https://www.macrumors.com/2016/03/02/icloud-backups-less-sec...

Although in a link in this HN article Apple says backups _are_ encrypted: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303

So, a little confusing...

EDIT

bah, found this:

"Right now, although iCloud backups are encrypted, the keys for the encryption are also stored with Apple. "

https://9to5mac.com/2016/02/25/apple-working-on-stronger-icl...

Re: Our Approach to Privacy

#102

Post by davidiach »

greggman wrote: post #74

I'm happy Apple is at least trying hard to deal with privacy but honestly I don't think they are doing enough, at least for me. For example, I don't really want to give most apps constant access to my photos, my camera, or my mic but I really don't have a whole lot of choice if I still want to use popular apps and services like Facebook, Instagram, Messenger, Hangouts, Line, WhatsApp etc.. I really wish that every ti…

That's actually quite a sensible proposal. I wish the implement it.

I often asked myself what happens when I give an app access to my photos. Can that app upload all my photos to their servers? The same question for things like calendar, address book, health data etc.

Re: Our Approach to Privacy

#103

Post by killjoywashere »

tentaTherapist wrote: post #84
LeoPanthera wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is correct. The Facebook app regularly shows me all the photos I have taken today and asks if I want to post any of them.

Honestly that sounds really creepy.

Of the 6 apps under discussion by greggman, 4 are Facebook properties. Facebook is creepy.

Re: Our Approach to Privacy

#104

Post by odammit »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #79
guyfawkes303 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mis-understand how iOS privacy controls work. An app doesn't get to 'see all your photos' just because you grant photo access, you still have to select which photos to put in the app. Same goes for camera, that just let's the app pull up the camera interface, not be able to access it 24/7 for whatever purpose they want. Same with the mic.

I don't think this is correct. The Facebook app regularly shows me all the photos I have taken today and asks if I want to post any of them.

I can't tell you how many times I've definitely had a photo show up in the "do you want to post this" preview that I most certainly would never want to post.

I feel like I'm having a heart attack every time thinking I posted it already. That feature sucks.

Re: Our Approach to Privacy

#105

Post by forapurpose »

greggman wrote: post #90
greggman wrote: post #74

I'm happy Apple is at least trying hard to deal with privacy but honestly I don't think they are doing enough, at least for me. For example, I don't really want to give most apps constant access to my photos, my camera, or my mic but I really don't have a whole lot of choice if I still want to use popular apps and services like Facebook, Instagram, Messenger, Hangouts, Line, WhatsApp etc.. I really wish that every ti…

Thinking about it some more. For Camera and Mic they could have the option to "ask the user" every time and revoke that permission if the top is not the front app after a minute or so. That would at least prevent using the camera and mic when the user has not recently given permission. Whether people would use it or not I don't know. I would.

> Whether people would use it or not I don't know. I would.

They could allow an app in their app store to provide this functionality to users who want it.

Re: Our Approach to Privacy

#106

Post by odammit »

greggman wrote: post #74

I'm happy Apple is at least trying hard to deal with privacy but honestly I don't think they are doing enough, at least for me. For example, I don't really want to give most apps constant access to my photos, my camera, or my mic but I really don't have a whole lot of choice if I still want to use popular apps and services like Facebook, Instagram, Messenger, Hangouts, Line, WhatsApp etc.. I really wish that every ti…

No offense, but I guarantee nobody wants to spy on you.

Mark is definitely not sitting around thinking "ayyyyy what's Gregg up to?"

Re: Our Approach to Privacy

#107

Post by wyc »

Apple sells hardware differentiated by integrated software for premium pricing. They want to build better and more expensive products through superior design and quality control. Collecting and analyzing personal data isn't the most important thing for their business. They might see more benefit by eschewing personal data collection and marketing a privacy-focused message, which they seem to be doing.

In contrast, Google and Facebook are companies that sell advertising. The value they can offer to publishers and advertisers completely relies on how well they know their users. Their competitive moat involves collection of proprietary data to continuously improve their products. These are clear incentives to be sticky and greedy with your information, but also to keep it private and proprietary for their own sake.

With these incentives in mind, I more readily trust Apple when it says that it will not collect my data compared to data conglomerates, and Apple hasn't done anything to aggressively betray that idea in its history (to my knowledge). Combined with the technical security advantages of iOS, I'm inclined to believe Apple products to be the least-bad option for the security-minded today.

Re: Our Approach to Privacy

#108

Post by mixmastamyk »

odammit wrote: post #104
LeoPanthera wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is correct. The Facebook app regularly shows me all the photos I have taken today and asks if I want to post any of them.

I can't tell you how many times I've definitely had a photo show up in the "do you want to post this" preview that I most certainly would never want to post. I feel like I'm having a heart attack every time thinking I posted it already. That feature sucks.

uninstalls app and uses website

Re: Our Approach to Privacy

#109

Post by yaseer »

wyc wrote: post #107

Apple sells hardware differentiated by integrated software for premium pricing. They want to build better and more expensive products through superior design and quality control. Collecting and analyzing personal data isn't the most important thing for their business. They might see more benefit by eschewing personal data collection and marketing a privacy-focused message, which they seem to be doing. In contrast, Go…

I agree with this reasoning (although I'm not particularly privacy minded, and prefer Android and most Google products to iOS and iCloud).

The older tech companies like Apple and Microsoft have built business models with a different set of incentives around user data. Google, and particularly Facebook's, business models entirely rely on monetising user data.

My personal 'ranking' of a companies incentives to respect privacy is something like:

1. Microsoft 2. Apple 3. Amazon 4. Google 5. Facebook

Obviously this ranking is very debatable, but I agree business model incentives are a pretty good heuristic.

Re: Our Approach to Privacy

#110

Post by millstone »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #82
Shank wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all boils down to what you see in the public. The FBI was trying to get Apple to create an iOS variant to extract data from a device, to the point where Tim Cook wrote a letter refusing to do so and was willing to fight it in court. In a similar fashion, Apple has given talks and white papers on iOS security. In tandem with these well documented white papers and talks discussing the internal functions of iOS, we h…

We know that they lied to customers claiming they couldn't help law enforcement get data off customers' devices. "Unlike our competitors, Apple cannot bypass your passcode and therefore cannot access this data. So it's not technically feasible for us to respond to government warrants for the extraction of this data from devices in their possession running iOS 8."[1] After it became clear that it is technically feasib…

By "technically feasible" are you referring to Apple's ability to build a software update that allows for quicker brute-forcing of the passcode?
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