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To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

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Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#131

Post by Mz »

dredmorbius wrote: post #127
Mz wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been living this horror for six years. If I'm in too much pain to physically get out of bed, how am I supposed to exercise? I would email you, but you have no contact info. I imagine I will regret posting this. I usually do. Some broken part of my brain has yet to master hearing of someone else's suffering and going "Welp, not my problem!" It is still on my To Do list. Some general thoughts, that may or may not…

Any references on the lymph mobilisation claim?

The lymph is then moved along the lymphatic vessel network by either intrinsic contractions of the lymphatic passages or by extrinsic compression of the lymphatic vessels via external tissue forces (e.g., the contractions of skeletal muscles)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymphatic_system

It is surprisingly hard to find a figure for the amount of increase or a study. I say that because I know I have seen this info before and without digging for it. I have no idea why I recall it as easy to find in the past when it seems so hard to find now. But I did find this study:

Exercise increased the clearance rate three- to sixfold

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7793.1997....

Potentially also of interest:

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-26530269

http://gizmodo.com/why-standing-in-one-place-makes-your-legs...

It is trivially easy to search for "exercise moves lymph" and get a bunch of stuff, but probably not the kind of stuff people on HN want to see.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#133

Post by jpm_sd »

bar-b-q wrote: post #119

If someone also has some serious advice for shoulder pain related to sitting/working a lot in front of a computer, I would much appreciate this. I constantly have pain in my left shoulder for years now and cant find a way how to ease the pain. I have this pain the whole day, but sitting in front of a computer increases it. Already tested a lot of therapist and tried different sitting positions. Standing does not make…

Get checked for a cartilage tear. You may need a contrast MRI, and you may need statical repair.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#135

Post by edison85 »

gforge wrote: post #111
curun1r wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with viewing pain the way you're viewing it is that pain is an entirely subjective concept and there's no way to objectively measure it. Looking for physiological symptoms, like serotonin imbalances, can never adequately explain the perception of pain because there's no way to tell the difference between a symptom and a cause. I've seen through meditation how simply learning to experience pain in a more p…

I could not agree more. Our bodies have had millions of years of handling disease without drugs, we should tap into that resource. The problem I face daily is that many patients come to me and say they don't have the time for physiotherapy and want surgery. They often add that their neighbor had great experience with surgery for the exact same illness. It's actually amazing how illnesses cluster... It is hard to conv…

I feel like most chronic issues have to be viewed systematically. Often an injury or imbalance in one area over time causes dysfunction in another and although we have physiatrists, they jus don't have enough time to look at the body as a whole and PTs have the time but many just go through the motions.

For chronic pain, I've given the book Trigger Point Workbook by Davies which makes Travell and Simon's trigger point research easily understood by the layman tona few people and many have improved over time. I've seen carpel tunnel, back pain, scoliosis, SI dysfunction, TMJ all improve

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#136

Post by learc83 »

zacurry wrote: post #55
ransom1538 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey man after 3 years I just finally beat back pain - it is possible. In my case it was physical therapy until i understood the routine to strengthen the core and stretching. I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing. I lost weight (i am 6'1 got down to 165). I took stretching serious, you should be able to touch your toes. You need to drink milk. For depression find a position to work while you…

> I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing If you don't mind, could please tell me how do you lie down and work ? Since I started suffering from back pain , I was thinking if something like this was possible. I was also afraid it would fuck up my eyes, have you had any problems of that sort ?

Take a look at zero g workstations.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#137

Post by flash42 »

zacurry wrote: post #46
moretai wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd seriously consider Yoga. But to get started, deep breathing I feel has had an affect on my overall core strength. At times, you'll feel like a moron. Deep, deep breathes. I'd suggest starting off for session of like 5 or 10 minutes. It doesn't matter how you do it. Just breathe deep as a practice. But if you need something to get started: something that's standard is X second in, X second hold, X second release.…

Yoga is not recommended for people with lower back pain. When I started having back pain, somebody suggested to me yoga. Everything went great for three months, the pain was still there but lesser , and I felt good and fit. Then one day, while doing surya namaskar, I felt a pain ripping through my spine and fell down, unable to move. I consulted an M.D , and he immediately asked me if I had been doing surya namaskar.…

I really like this HN thread. It is a wonderful series of coming outs! I want to reply on all comments here and ask and ask and ask. But this post is most relevant, because I started doing surya namaskar on my non-training days, and in general when I only an hour or so to move my body a bit.

Do you remember the exact conditions when you fell down (movement, which part of the day, what did you do before, etc). Have you been practicing yoga alone or with a teacher, group?

Did you went in and try figuring out what caused your pain? Are you on track with it now? If yes, what has changed? Will you go back to your Yoga practice or you feel that it is dangerous for you?

Thanks!

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#138

Post by gforge »

tcj_phx wrote: post #128
gforge wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an inertia but I would say that it is often of benefit to the patients. The problem is that I as a surgeon love to operate (note that we don't even have a monetary incentive) and I truly want to help my patients. This makes me biased and the inertia has saved me quite a few times for starting performing new cool procedures. The biggest problem is that we often have a big problem with discontinuing treatment…

Hi, thanks again for your comments. I am trying to better understand the mindset behind the medical status quo, and you've given some good insights. > I am not a cardiologist so I don't know the full details on the statins, but I would be careful not to skip them. Cardiovascular mortality has decreased hugely the last decades and this one of the major treatments - they must be doing something right. Statins cause mas…

A common problem that we have is that there is no such thing as the perfect drug. Any drug that is stronger than placebo will inevitably have side-effects (note that even placebo has side effects). It is always a cost-benefit and this is a tricky thing to fully convey to patients - what does 10% risk of side-effect mean? For the patient that gets the side-effect they usually have it a 100%.

I wish that we doctors were immune to the industry's influence but unfortunately we also sometimes fall prey to the cunning tricks. I think the OxyContin scandal says it all http://theweek.com/articles/541564/how-american-opiate-epide... Mind-blowing that doctors actually believed that there is a free lunch - a morphine product without addiction...

There is hope though, here in Sweden doctors during the 90:s were frequently taken to nice dinners and other events in the name of drug companies representative costs. In early 00 this basically disappeared and today we get a sandwich during lunch break in order to hear about the new thing that they want to sell us. I think the awareness of the "no free lunch" concept (see http://www.nofreelunch.org/) is much higher today than 20 years ago when I started med-school.

One cost that you have to be prepared for is that the system becomes "communistic": if we prescribe any drug that is outside the recommended set of drugs our clinic has to cover the costs. The adoption of new drugs is generally slower (although not for important drugs e.g. cancer treatments) and we are no longer allowed to make local deals with suppliers, everything has to go through centralized deals (even if we can get a better deal). In my mind it's a small price to pay if it keeps our patients safe and we get to spend the money on our health-care where it matters, but I think this system would never pass the American legislative system...

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#139

Post by daleco »

moretai wrote: post #38
ianai wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you so for core conditioning and strength? Also I'm looking for ways to put together a workstation in the horizontal position

I'd seriously consider Yoga. But to get started, deep breathing I feel has had an affect on my overall core strength. At times, you'll feel like a moron. Deep, deep breathes. I'd suggest starting off for session of like 5 or 10 minutes. It doesn't matter how you do it. Just breathe deep as a practice. But if you need something to get started: something that's standard is X second in, X second hold, X second release.…

Indeed, I had constant neck and back pain (probably because I'm sitting all day long). 3-6 months of Yoga 3-4 times a week healed me. It was also very good to fight stress. It may not work for everybody or every issues.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#140

Post by dredmorbius »

Mz wrote: post #131
dredmorbius wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any references on the lymph mobilisation claim?

The lymph is then moved along the lymphatic vessel network by either intrinsic contractions of the lymphatic passages or by extrinsic compression of the lymphatic vessels via external tissue forces (e.g., the contractions of skeletal muscles) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymphatic_system It is surprisingly hard to find a figure for the amount of increase or a study. I say that because I know I have seen this info…

Thank you.
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