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To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

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Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#61

Post by HillaryBriss »

bambax wrote: post #9

Not one mention of The Mindbody Prescription (if only to dismiss it)? If you're suffering from back pain, or carpal tunnel syndrome, or such ailments, read this book, it might change your life! (and if it doesn't it can't harm) https://www.amazon.com/dp/0446675156/

IIRC one of Sarno's central ideas is that, sometimes, when a person is undergoing an intensely painful psychological experience, the brain creates some physical pain in order to distract the person from that, original, intense psychological pain.

i.e. the chronic physical pain is manufactured by the brain as a means to cope with (avoid awareness of) another type of pain.

so, if the person (somehow) becomes consciously aware of that original psychological pain, the brain stops creating the physical pain. the physical pain no longer serves a purpose at that point.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#62

Post by zacurry »

Sharing my experience with back pain in the hope that it might benefit some one.

I am a programmer and I used to work 11 hour days frequently. After some years I started experiencing excruciating lower back pain. The pain would flare up if sit for more than 30 minutes. I went for physiotherapy and the pain lessened. The therapist told me I had no core strength and I started taking yoga lessons.

Yoga felt good and I continued for 3 months, when things got worse. I consulted a specialist and he advised against yoga and all sorts of exercise.

I haven't done any exercise in the past 6 months . And I have no pain in my back if I sit for 8 hours. Sit longer, and mild pain appears.

The point I want to stress is when doing exercise and yoga, I felt good and pain lessened, but the mild pain was there at all times when I was sitting. Now with no exercise , I can sit pain free for 8 hours easily.Consequently ,I am much more productive at work , but the lack of exercise makes me sometimes feel dull and unhealthy :( .

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#63

Post by WalterSear »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #54
WalterSear wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, "traditional Chinese Medicine" was invented by Mao because he couldn't afford to give his half billion strong agrarian proletariat actual medicine and didn't want them to notice. >“Even though I believe we should promote Chinese medicine,” Mao told him, “I personally do not believe in it. I don’t take Chinese medicine.” > In 1923, Lu Xun, China’s most famous man of letters, reflected critically…

It's interesting how we have this cohort of people who don't use TCM, have strong opinions about it, and have no trouble finding sources to back up their claims. I don't argue with them. Because at one time I knew TCM was bullshit too. Then we have this other cohort of people with chronic issues who exhausted, or are unsatisfied with, the treatments offered by western medicine. They go on to discover TCM, are healed…

> Then we have this other cohort of people with chronic issues who exhausted, or are unsatisfied with, the treatments offered by western medicine.

Except... I'm in that cohort. I've been through the gauntlet too - years and years and thousands of dollars of both real medicine and what I now accept to be fake, that I reached for in desperation. So, I see your anecdata, and raise mine. If only we had some rigorous methodology for determining which conclusion is the correct one, as far as we can tell from the current evidence...

Moveover - trying to present evidence for a field that >specificallyWestern medicine may be incomplete, ineffective and often wrong, but it's not founded in willful bullshit.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#64

Post by e40 »

eric_b wrote: post #49

This article doesn't have one mention of TMS or the work that John Sarno did? That is borderline irresponsible. Read "Healing Back Pain: The Mind Body Connection" by Jon Sarno.[1] I lived with chronic knee pain for over 8 years, and would routinely have "carpal tunnel like symptoms" with my wrists. Literally within a week of reading that book my knee pain was gone, and my wrists have not had any issues since. My pers…

I won't give away spoilers but the treatment plan is HILARIOUSLY simple

Seriously? This isn't a novel or TV show. That statement of yours just makes me think it is a scam.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#65

Post by rsync »

zacurry wrote: post #55
ransom1538 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey man after 3 years I just finally beat back pain - it is possible. In my case it was physical therapy until i understood the routine to strengthen the core and stretching. I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing. I lost weight (i am 6'1 got down to 165). I took stretching serious, you should be able to touch your toes. You need to drink milk. For depression find a position to work while you…

> I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing If you don't mind, could please tell me how do you lie down and work ? Since I started suffering from back pain , I was thinking if something like this was possible. I was also afraid it would fuck up my eyes, have you had any problems of that sort ?

"If you don't mind, could please tell me how do you lie down and work ?"

I have three "workstations" at my office - two of them take place at my adjustable height desk. I can stand or sit.

I also have a full sized couch that I can lie flat on. I prop my laptop up on a pillow just like you might at home.

I move between these three positions as it suits me and can avoid completely any kind of fatigue or unhealthy postures.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#66

Post by twobyfour »

There are a lot of different types of back pain. I'm always stunned at how they get lumped together. Lower back muscle ache caused by stress and poor posture is a very different beast from a pinched nerve or a herniated disc or even muscle spasms caused by a glute injury.

It makes sense for a psychological component to treatment to be effective for stress-related back pain. And yes, stress can aggravate pain from a physical injury. But there are also plenty of physical injuries that aren't psychosomatic.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#67

Post by rsync »

ianai wrote: post #34
ransom1538 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey man after 3 years I just finally beat back pain - it is possible. In my case it was physical therapy until i understood the routine to strengthen the core and stretching. I also changed how I work: no sitting, ever. Laying or standing. I lost weight (i am 6'1 got down to 165). I took stretching serious, you should be able to touch your toes. You need to drink milk. For depression find a position to work while you…

What do you so for core conditioning and strength? Also I'm looking for ways to put together a workstation in the horizontal position

"What do you so for core conditioning and strength?"

I tend to avoid recommending specific exercises - instead I like to recommend that you think of your trunk in three dimensions and apply weight bearing loads to at least every 90 degrees around that circle (which implies at least four exercises).

So that would mean your flexing your back, your abs, and each of your two sides (Abdominal external oblique, I think).

I personally try to hit every 45 degrees (which implies at least 8 exercises).

You need to try a lot of different exercises and find the ones that work for you and for your body type.

And you need to walk.

You can do 50 different trunk/core exercises and you will never hit every single muscle and combination of muscles the way that walking does.

Your body is a walking machine. You were built to walk. Walking will heal you. It will be painful and difficult at first - when I blew out my L4/L5 I needed to lie down for an hour after walking 4-5 miles. That doesn't last. Your body will tighten and strengthen up all the right muscles to hold your back in the most natural and healthful position it can be in - the one that supports walking.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#68

Post by cJ0th »

e40 wrote: post #64
eric_b wrote: post #49

This article doesn't have one mention of TMS or the work that John Sarno did? That is borderline irresponsible. Read "Healing Back Pain: The Mind Body Connection" by Jon Sarno.[1] I lived with chronic knee pain for over 8 years, and would routinely have "carpal tunnel like symptoms" with my wrists. Literally within a week of reading that book my knee pain was gone, and my wrists have not had any issues since. My pers…

I won't give away spoilers but the treatment plan is HILARIOUSLY simple Seriously? This isn't a novel or TV show. That statement of yours just makes me think it is a scam.

The idea of Dr Sarno is not really in accordance with the scientific literature but it is indeed a very simple method and has worked like a charm for me, too. So I wouldn't say it's a scam. At worst, his method might turns out to be a placebo.

You may want to read up about "tension myositis syndrome" on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_E._Sarno#Tension_myositis...

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#69

Post by briancleland »

eric_b wrote: post #49

This article doesn't have one mention of TMS or the work that John Sarno did? That is borderline irresponsible. Read "Healing Back Pain: The Mind Body Connection" by Jon Sarno.[1] I lived with chronic knee pain for over 8 years, and would routinely have "carpal tunnel like symptoms" with my wrists. Literally within a week of reading that book my knee pain was gone, and my wrists have not had any issues since. My pers…

I suffered a crushed vertebra last year and experienced horrendous back pain for many months. Sarno's book almost completely cured me of my pain and stiffness. I don't really understand why it works but it does. I would strongly urge anyone suffering chronic pain to read the Healing Back Pain book. Basic calisthenics and stretching has been very helpful too.

Re: To treat back pain, look to the brain not the spine

#70

Post by rsync »

zacurry wrote: post #46
moretai wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd seriously consider Yoga. But to get started, deep breathing I feel has had an affect on my overall core strength. At times, you'll feel like a moron. Deep, deep breathes. I'd suggest starting off for session of like 5 or 10 minutes. It doesn't matter how you do it. Just breathe deep as a practice. But if you need something to get started: something that's standard is X second in, X second hold, X second release.…

Yoga is not recommended for people with lower back pain. When I started having back pain, somebody suggested to me yoga. Everything went great for three months, the pain was still there but lesser , and I felt good and fit. Then one day, while doing surya namaskar, I felt a pain ripping through my spine and fell down, unable to move. I consulted an M.D , and he immediately asked me if I had been doing surya namaskar.…

"Then one day, while doing surya namaskar, I felt a pain ripping through my spine and fell down, unable to move. I consulted an M.D , and he immediately asked me if I had been doing surya namaskar."

This is important. Yoga is very powerful and I think everyone should incorporate yoga movements into their fitness regime.

However, typical yoga classes and even established yoga movement series (like the Ashtonga primary series) are heavily weighted towards forward folding/bending which is the last thing you want to do with a weak/injured back.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't do yoga - it means that you should understand the physiology of a bulging/blow disc and build up your strength (perhaps with other yoga exercises/poses) to the point that you are strong enough to do that forward folding ... and even then maintain caution and moderation.

With a fully rehabbed/asymptomatic L4/L5 I am doing heavy freeweight squats and deadlifts and even inverting during BJJ - but I would still be cautious and even modify portions of a typical yoga class ...

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