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Court OKs child porn prosecution of minors distributing pictures of themselves

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Court OKs child porn prosecution of minors distributing pictures of themselves

#141

Post by trhway »

dcow wrote: post #98
trhway wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science didn't fail and actually helps a lot here. We know the brain development level of fetus at different stages. As a society we're generally ok with killing fish, reptiles and most of the society is ok with killing mammals. That places abortion cut-off anywhere between 3 and 6 months for the current state of the society moral development. And that is what most of the states have when they aren't dominated by ant…

Science has failed to define what a human life is (really what any life is). It has not enumerated the qualities that make us human nor has it established a plausible theory and effective model that allows us to assess the attributes of a developing fetus and declare, "this one is human, this one is still a pile of cells". (And that's not to say it hasn't been helpful in sussing out practical guidelines so far.) I re…

>Science has failed to define what a human life is ... It has not enumerated the qualities that make us human ... "this one is human, this one is still a pile of cells".

Those questions you pose is not really of scientific domain - they are actually equivalent reformulation of the religious question when/where "soul" is created (equivalence of the "soul" and "human" questions is established by the religious dogma that only humans have "soul"). Science has Cro-Magnons, Neanderthals, Australopithecus, etc... It is the question of religion domain whether Neanderthals or our common ancestors all the way to ancient apes were "humans"/"had soul". If notion of "soul" exists where did it appear between us and those cells $2B years ago to which each of us is connected through the continuous chain of bodies?

Re: Court OKs child porn prosecution of minors distributing pictures of themselves

#142

Post by BigJono »

aiyodev wrote: post #132
justonepost wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not easy to frame someone successfully, the law is pretty careful about stuff like this. However you could probably get someone fired or develop a bad rep.

Just being investigated, losing all electronics, losing your job, losing friends, losing family, living in fear for months is bad enough that a framing is probably considered successful in the eyes of the framer whether or not it results in a trial. It's like you're saying the rape doesn't count if nobody gets pregnant.

And god help you if you find yourself in the media crosshairs at any point. Which is even more likely if you go to trial since "paedophile gets community service/fine" is an absolute slam dunk of a headline and nobody other than the courts are going to give a shit whether you violently raped a kid in a dark alley or had someone download 3 videos on your badly secured wi-fi.

Re: Court OKs child porn prosecution of minors distributing pictures of themselves

#143

Post by pfg »

lr4444lr wrote: post #102
jfaucett wrote: post #7

What is the rationale behind defining child porn age The first case is something that actually happened to a friend of mine. He was 23 and dating a 17 year old, got convicted, sent to prison, and is now labeled a sex offender for life. Are there any countries out there that take a sane approach to this moral conundrum?

The rationale is the age of majority. As a parent, I have a right to control the influences in my daughter's life - save for some exceptions around mandatory education and maintaining basic health. That means whom she associates with, and how images of her taken are used save for those taken of her while in public and not under duress of compulsion. Why is that so hard to understand?

Children in various age groups have numerous rights that go far above education and health care in many countries, from the right to privacy to things like religious freedom. Saying that parents should have full control over their children's sex life until they reach the full age of majority is certainly controversial.

Re: Court OKs child porn prosecution of minors distributing pictures of themselves

#144

Post by nitrogen »

lr4444lr wrote: post #102
jfaucett wrote: post #7

What is the rationale behind defining child porn age The first case is something that actually happened to a friend of mine. He was 23 and dating a 17 year old, got convicted, sent to prison, and is now labeled a sex offender for life. Are there any countries out there that take a sane approach to this moral conundrum?

The rationale is the age of majority. As a parent, I have a right to control the influences in my daughter's life - save for some exceptions around mandatory education and maintaining basic health. That means whom she associates with, and how images of her taken are used save for those taken of her while in public and not under duress of compulsion. Why is that so hard to understand?

Teenagers also have the right to live lives that allow them to experience the world on their own terms and to learn from their experiences. Overly controlling parenting is ultimately detrimental to teenagers' development. Why is that so hard to understand?

Re: Court OKs child porn prosecution of minors distributing pictures of themselves

#145

Post by trhway »

yters wrote: post #135
trhway wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science didn't fail and actually helps a lot here. We know the brain development level of fetus at different stages. As a society we're generally ok with killing fish, reptiles and most of the society is ok with killing mammals. That places abortion cut-off anywhere between 3 and 6 months for the current state of the society moral development. And that is what most of the states have when they aren't dominated by ant…

By your logic it's ok to eat a 3 month old fetus.

We kill for many other reasons than food as well as for no reason at all. Why did you choose the eating for your statement? Well, anyway eating your own species has selective pressure working against such a trait so your statement doesn't make sense.

Re: Court OKs child porn prosecution of minors distributing pictures of themselves

#146

Post by Chathamization »

13of40 wrote: post #43
sgustard wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a map of age of consent per country, ranging from 12 to "must be married." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent "Most jurisdictions have set a fixed age of consent" but also "Some jurisdictions have laws explicitly allowing sexual acts with minors under the age of consent if their partner is close in age to them."

Holy... In half of Mexico the age of consent is 12 .

Child marriage is legal in much of the the U.S.A.[1]:

> The search turned up cases of 12-year-old girls married in Alaska, Louisiana and South Carolina, while other states simply had categories of “14 and younger.”

Most states have no minimum age, though some have a minimum age between 14 and 17 (only two have a minimum age of 17 going by the map in the article).

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/opinion/sunday/it-was-for...

Re: Court OKs child porn prosecution of minors distributing pictures of themselves

#147

Post by pgnas »

as a parent and also someone who was a child at one time I can see that kids make all kinds of mistakes. I mean, I seriously don't even ask why sometimes because I know the answer I'm going to get will not make any sense.

I'm very lucky and I have some wonderful children I cannot see them going out and doing something like this however people do stupid things. I don't think charging someone with something that is going to stick with them for the rest of their life for something that they did when they were 13 ,14, 17 years old.. they are kids and their brains, hello all you scientists out of there, are not even fully developed.

Listen, if a 17-year-old child sent an explicit image to my daughter I would be over at the parents house faster than you can imagine. That kid obviously needs a swift kick in the ass, he or she does not deserve to be charged with a crime will follow that person for life.

If we continue to charge children as adults, kids that are 13,14,15 or 17, then we might as well change the age of when you are an adult to 13 years old.

has anyone given any consideration to the crap that these kids are bombarded with on a moment by moment basis on television in music and all entertainment, it is hyper sexualized. What do you expect your children to do when they are faced with this?

The sad situation and I don't agree with the stupid thing that this kid did in the stupid things the kids are going to do but they are kids! Come on now, haven't we seen cases recently where adult pedophiles have been let off? Are we going mad?

Re: Court OKs child porn prosecution of minors distributing pictures of themselves

#148

Post by aiyodev »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #4

Because of the potential for selective or punitive prosecution I'm in favour of legalising teen sexting. Obviously the law needs to be carefully drafted to avoid allowing child exploitation, but it should absolutely not be possible to prosecute normal sexually-active teens under child pornography statutes. “Trust us, we'd never use it against the people it's supposed to protect” isn't enough.

Also, there's the possibility of poor children with Android phones getting convicted while rich children with locked iPhones go free because they're more costly to investigate.

Re: Court OKs child porn prosecution of minors distributing pictures of themselves

#149

Post by heartles »

odammit wrote: post #26

Well Snapchat is surely screwed. There goes their second most popular snap after putting cat ears on a fidget spinner.

Implying that Snapchat is mostly for sexting is doing a disservice to the platform, isn't it? In my experience (which is just an anecdote, idk if there are stats on this) Snapchat has been ~95% showing dumb jokes to friends

Re: Court OKs child porn prosecution of minors distributing pictures of themselves

#150

Post by dcow »

trhway wrote: post #141
dcow wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science has failed to define what a human life is (really what any life is). It has not enumerated the qualities that make us human nor has it established a plausible theory and effective model that allows us to assess the attributes of a developing fetus and declare, "this one is human, this one is still a pile of cells". (And that's not to say it hasn't been helpful in sussing out practical guidelines so far.) I re…

>Science has failed to define what a human life is ... It has not enumerated the qualities that make us human ... "this one is human, this one is still a pile of cells". Those questions you pose is not really of scientific domain - they are actually equivalent reformulation of the religious question when/where "soul" is created (equivalence of the "soul" and "human" questions is established by the religious dogma tha…

I agree. And that's part of the point. If we could scientifically agree on definition of human life, it would be way easier to navigate the abortion topic. But since we can't, it's currently entirely a social issue. The reason I didn't want to group abortion with CP under "silly socially issues" is that I'm still holding out on us being able to eventually understand our own humanity. And when we do, it may shed light on an agreeable framework under which to legislate termination of a fetus.
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