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The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

nytimes.com

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Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#61

Post by KGIII »

nextstep wrote: post #5

I'm a millennial. I don't want any kind of suburb. I refuse to live anywhere that isn't well-connected/dense enough to provide a good lifestyle completely car-free (i.e. all travel is quick, ubiquitous and convenient on foot/bike/public transportation). I do not ever wish to drive and this is not possible in any suburban development.

My nearest neighbor is a half mile away. The nearest village is 24 miles away, and has ~1200 residents. Today, I had three moose come visit my lawn. A few days ago, it was a rabbit, but I ate him for breakfast the following day. Tonight, I had trout caught from a stream on my property.

I don't think my age is salient, as I know plenty of young people who claim they'd love to live like I do. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's lots of different desires, and they encompass all age groups.

I used to live in cities. I'm so happy to be out. Then again, I do love driving.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#62

Post by paulddraper »

alkonaut wrote: post #43
nextstep wrote: post #5

I'm a millennial. I don't want any kind of suburb. I refuse to live anywhere that isn't well-connected/dense enough to provide a good lifestyle completely car-free (i.e. all travel is quick, ubiquitous and convenient on foot/bike/public transportation). I do not ever wish to drive and this is not possible in any suburban development.

I said that too. And I'm not a millenial but a 70's kid. And then I had kids of my own and now I can't imagine not having a car to stuff the kids into, or a big backyard so I don't have to walk to the park with them to play. It's not like I wan't to drive everywhere, it's just the tradeoff I'm happy to accept in order to have a house with a big backyard for the kids to play in. So this is nothing new. People have alw…

And a car is darn convenient for a family-sized weekly grocery trip.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#63

Post by majormajor »

jellicle wrote: post #47
gozur88 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roads, sewers, and mortgages aren't subsidized in my suburb. We pay for all of it.

I expect you'll find that your city core pays for it. Every calculation I've ever seen about the expenses of suburbs ends up with downtown paying for suburban development. It's cheaper to service a downtown property, more expensive to service a suburban one; and the suburban properties are typically paying lower property taxes, not higher. Heavily subsidized suburban residents then go to their city council meetings a…

How much has downtown Detroit paid for Auburn Hills the past 20 years or so?

Or, in another way: are these just recent calculations? There are a lot of places where downtown cores hollowed and had most of the big-financial-impact businesses move out to the suburbs a few decades ago, and now that reversed more recently, and will probably cycle around a few more times in the future.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#64

Post by rayiner »

majormajor wrote: post #33
pascalxus wrote: post #28

Its fun to dream about the future. But, a dream is all it'll ever be. how does anyone expect to build this stuff, when we can't even build regular housing, anywhere near the amount that is required to match demand. The only way, I can see this being built, is if new cities are created. These cities need to be populated by employers first: once that's there, most people that works there will find housing there too. I…

> how does anyone expect to build this stuff, when we can't even build regular housing, anywhere near the amount that is required to match demand. You can't in SF, NY, LA... other areas don't have this problem. If your biggest desire is to have your housing not cost more than 60% of your paycheck, move to the suburbs of somewhere like Dallas. You'll be shocked at how many millennials can afford to have nice apartment…

Or Atlanta. Even millennial who don’t work in tech can afford condos downtown.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#66

Post by chrismealy »

alkonaut wrote: post #43
nextstep wrote: post #5

I'm a millennial. I don't want any kind of suburb. I refuse to live anywhere that isn't well-connected/dense enough to provide a good lifestyle completely car-free (i.e. all travel is quick, ubiquitous and convenient on foot/bike/public transportation). I do not ever wish to drive and this is not possible in any suburban development.

I said that too. And I'm not a millenial but a 70's kid. And then I had kids of my own and now I can't imagine not having a car to stuff the kids into, or a big backyard so I don't have to walk to the park with them to play. It's not like I wan't to drive everywhere, it's just the tradeoff I'm happy to accept in order to have a house with a big backyard for the kids to play in. So this is nothing new. People have alw…

You have to drive everywhere because everything is so far apart to make room for all the roads and parking and setbacks to avoid the problems created by all the cars.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#67

Post by chrismealy »

cpursley wrote: post #18

This trend must be a price over preference issue. The desirable cities in the US are just so damn expensive to live in town. If you want to buy, it's either the 'burbs, or most of your income going to rent/buy in the city. Of course, if you really do the math, even beyond being unsustainable from an economic and infrastructure/governance standpoint, on a personal level, owning and maintaining a house in the suburbs h…

It's true. When nice places for people get too crowded and expensive the obvious solution is to make more nice places for people. Sadly America only makes more nice places for cars.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#68

Post by elihu »

The article seemed like kind of a fluff piece reminiscent of the articles people used to write about flying cars, robot maids, videophones, etc.., but for anyone who's interested in this kind of thing, I'd recommend A Pattern Language by Christopher Alexander. It was written 40 years ago, but the ideas are still relevant, I think.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#69

Post by edwhitesell »

majormajor wrote: post #33
pascalxus wrote: post #28

Its fun to dream about the future. But, a dream is all it'll ever be. how does anyone expect to build this stuff, when we can't even build regular housing, anywhere near the amount that is required to match demand. The only way, I can see this being built, is if new cities are created. These cities need to be populated by employers first: once that's there, most people that works there will find housing there too. I…

> how does anyone expect to build this stuff, when we can't even build regular housing, anywhere near the amount that is required to match demand. You can't in SF, NY, LA... other areas don't have this problem. If your biggest desire is to have your housing not cost more than 60% of your paycheck, move to the suburbs of somewhere like Dallas. You'll be shocked at how many millennials can afford to have nice apartment…

> Dallas

This is entirely true of the area. Affordability of nice housing is easily in-budget, even on a single income.

If you don't mind a commute, multiple acres of land is also an option. I just recevied an ad in the mail today for 5+ acre lots on a lake, 30 minutes from Dallas starting at $189k.

We moved from Dallas to Seattle 4 years ago for family. We moved back to Dallas after 18 months due to housing costs. Our house cost about 60% of what we would have spent for a dump half the size in the Seattle area.

Re: The Suburb of the Future, Almost Here

#70

Post by afpx »

paulddraper wrote: post #60
jtmcmc wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

where do you live with mass transit and cheap housing? Also Chicago?

Salt Lake. Free bus + train in city center; yearly ticket outside of that. Every big city has mass transit to at some degree. IDK what your specific requirements are though.

Interesting. I've never been to Salt Lake City. Where are some good places to live?

I did a look in Zillow, and there are a few houses within 30 minute commute for under 300k. Most seem above 350k and further than 30 min, though. Which still isn't bad. But, assuming around $2,000 / month for mortgage and taxes, I'd have to make $120k+, gross, to have it be 20% of my income. Are there a lot of jobs there that pay that much? Sounds nice.

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