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On React and WordPress

ma.tt

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Re: On React and WordPress

#101

Post by mlsarecmg »

mplewis wrote: post #64
diminish wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vue would be great but preact seems to be a viable option too. Even riot could ..

As other commenters have mentioned - if your project violates React patents, and you switch to Preact, it almost certainly continues to violate those same patents.

Vue is also based on React, it uses the same exact principles internally, although in a less concise and more complex way as it leans heavily in Angulars direction on the outside. All templates are either transpiled or evaluated into createElement-like functions, from then on it has a v-dom and works/diffs/renders/composes like React.

This could "violate a react patent" according to you:

  const Test = () => createElement("div", null, "hello word")
No one has ever seen nor referenced a patent for this, but if we're really at that point then i'm afraid everything would violate such a patent.

Re: On React and WordPress

#102

Post by oneweekwonder »

Gaelan wrote: post #54
thristian wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that you lose access to React if you sue Facebook over any patents at all, not just ones that may be relative to React.

You don't lose access to React. You lose access to any patents in React, but not the copyright. We don't even know of any React patents, so for all we know the entire document does nothing.

> We don't even know of any React patents

This might be the one[0].

[0]: https://www.google.com/patents/US20170221242

Re: On React and WordPress

#103

Post by mlsarecmg »

Not a day goes by ... same came up in the project we're working on as our partners got wind of it and are now complaining. It seriously worries me as it's getting harder and harder to justify React although the technology is sound (perhaps close to perfect). The worst part is that this is already threatening v-dom in general (like Preact, Inferno, Vue, etc.) as people are falsely claiming FB holds a claim on it.

The React team should re-think their approach. Is it really worth it to dedicate time and spirit on technology that is dear to us all, that is meant to enable amazing applications, but Facebooks lawyers make it hard for us to use, doesn't even matter if our lawyers understand the patent clause correctly or not because they're the ones having the last say, and as this is snowballing out of control they tend to say no.

Dan, Sebastian, Pete, Jason, Brian, Dominic and so on, wish they'd get together, start a competitor called Fiber, or put FB under severe pressure.

Re: On React and WordPress

#104

Post by 8ig8 »

ryanswapp wrote: post #3
ljoshua wrote: post #2

It's too bad that this particular point has become an issue with so many good open source projects. I still think that the risk, even for startups considering acquisition exits, is low (see this great post from a patent/IP attorney [1]), but the fact that it's enough to cause players like the ASF and WordPress to move away from it just means fewer players and less innovation in the ecosystem. IANAL, but I wish the la…

I agree that the risk of running into legal trouble with Facebook is pretty low for many companies. However, that doesn't make it feel any less dirty. It would be nice if the lawyers at Facebook would take a chill pill on this one but that will never happen. It will be interesting to see where OSS projects from Facebook go moving forward given that the noise surrounding their patent clause seems to get louder and lou…

> On a side note - I'll bet WordPress get's rewritten in Vue.js

Seems like a good bet. Developers discussing the matter...

https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/2733

Re: On React and WordPress

#105

Post by K0nserv »

halfteatree wrote: post #96
sheeshkebab wrote: post #12

It's getting hard to recommend React when the company controlling it clearly has threatening licensing ideas. Better use something else open source or just pay a license fee to someone for a clearly licensed commercial framework.

I don't understand this: how are you not strictly better off with the patent grant? This whole fiasco seems to be nothing but FUD. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14780979 tl;dr: License with no patent grant: Facebook can sue you for infringing patents, even if you are using a clone! License with patent grant: Facebook cannot sue you for infringing patents, unless you do it first.

The patent grant isn't the problem it's the termination on any action against Facebook. Hence if Facebook infringes on patents you own you can't take action against them if you are using React.

Re: On React and WordPress

#106

Post by egeozcan »

mbrock wrote: post #94
egeozcan wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(IANAL) But you didn't use React so you never accepted that Patents file?

That's not how it works. The patents file does not take away any rights or impose any obligations. You already have a license to use the React software, because it comes with a BSD license. The patents file is an additional grant of rights. Specifically, the right to immunity against Facebook patents related to React, unless you have yourself initiated a patent lawsuit against Facebook. The Apache License and the Moz…

Oh I see. Thanks for the detailed explanation. Just have these questions: Without that patents file and the rights granted within, could Facebook theoretically sue you for infringing their patents by using their own open-source software? If not, what's the raison d'être for such a grant?

Re: On React and WordPress

#107

Post by yzmtf2008 »

K0nserv wrote: post #105
halfteatree wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this: how are you not strictly better off with the patent grant? This whole fiasco seems to be nothing but FUD. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14780979 tl;dr: License with no patent grant: Facebook can sue you for infringing patents, even if you are using a clone! License with patent grant: Facebook cannot sue you for infringing patents, unless you do it first.

The patent grant isn't the problem it's the termination on any action against Facebook. Hence if Facebook infringes on patents you own you can't take action against them if you are using React.

I think it’s quite fair to say “don’t sue us if you want to use our stuff for free”.

Re: On React and WordPress

#108

Post by Flenser »

K0nserv wrote: post #105
halfteatree wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this: how are you not strictly better off with the patent grant? This whole fiasco seems to be nothing but FUD. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14780979 tl;dr: License with no patent grant: Facebook can sue you for infringing patents, even if you are using a clone! License with patent grant: Facebook cannot sue you for infringing patents, unless you do it first.

The patent grant isn't the problem it's the termination on any action against Facebook. Hence if Facebook infringes on patents you own you can't take action against them if you are using React.

It's not "termination on any action against Facebook", the termination is only for:

1. filing a patent infringement against Facebook (for anything, related or unrelated to React)

2. filing a patent infringement counterclaim against Facebook for patents related to React (after Facebook have first filed a patent infringement claim against you for patents on anything)

3. filing a patent infringement against anyone for patents related to React

[edit]

> if Facebook infringes on patents you own you can't take action against them if you are using React.

You can take action against them, you just don't have a patent grant once you do.

Re: On React and WordPress

#109

Post by Flenser »

zodiac wrote: post #47
batmansmk wrote: post #33

Why does the Facebook license try to push an agenda with a perpendicular concern to the open sourcing of Reactjs? Was the purpose of opensourcing Reactjs a way to not get sued? They lost credibility in my eyes on their intention.

There was an article about that recently - it wasn't proactively pushing an agenda so much as, if FB wanted to release any software as OS, without the grant, the lawyers would have had to review every commit to avoid violating someone else's patent.

Do you have a link? That would be interesting to read.

Re: On React and WordPress

#110

Post by K0nserv »

Flenser wrote: post #108
K0nserv wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The patent grant isn't the problem it's the termination on any action against Facebook. Hence if Facebook infringes on patents you own you can't take action against them if you are using React.

It's not "termination on any action against Facebook", the termination is only for: 1. filing a patent infringement against Facebook (for anything, related or unrelated to React) 2. filing a patent infringement counterclaim against Facebook for patents related to React (after Facebook have first filed a patent infringement claim against you for patents on anything) 3. filing a patent infringement against anyone for p…

> You can take action against them, you just don't have a patent grant once you do.

Which opens you up to being countered-sued right? It seems that this leaves Facebook to freely infringe on any patents of React users without consequence.

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