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On React and WordPress

ma.tt

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Re: On React and WordPress

#61

Post by rdiddly »

coldtea wrote: post #13
CharlesW wrote: post #4

> As our general counsel wrote, we made the decision that we'd never run into the patent issue. That is still true today as it was then, and overall, we’ve been really happy with React. Okay. > …I'm here to say that the Gutenberg team is going to take a step back and rewrite Gutenberg using a different library. Am I the only one missing the "why"? > …passing down to our users. Is that the "why"? If so, what does he m…

> Is that the "why"? If so, what does he mean by it? Meaning: What is the "danger" that Matt says Automattic will never run into, but that WordPress users will run into? He answered that already. He doesn't believe there's much (if any) danger, but: "we have a lot of problems to tackle, and convincing the world that Facebook’s patent clause is fine isn’t ours to take on. It’s their fight". So what they don't want to…

In other words they're optimizing for bullshit avoidance - absolutely a valid decision. Or another way to put it would be that they don't want to be in the business of having to sell Facebook's legal turds. ("Sell" as in "persuade people to accept.") There are other client-side frameworks that don't carry that kind of baggage.

Frankly they get bonus points in my book just for the mere act of divesting from something Facebook owns, so that would've been a good enough reason for me. But hey, they also get to retain their right to sue Facebook if needed.

Re: On React and WordPress

#62

Post by morgante »

invaliduser wrote: post #56
morgante wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I have a hard time imagining that any Facebook patents you use with React wouldn't also apply to Preact. Then again, I think this whole patents issue is mostly FUD. The number of companies who have to reasonably consider suing Facebook for patent infringement is small and they know who they are.

The facebook patent clause states that you lose the licence rights to use react if you sue facebook against any patent infringement (for patents you own). There is nothing in that saying that they have patents on react, and if they have patent covering, it very likely covers very much more than just react (because of the generic way patents are filed). «The license granted hereunder will terminate, automatically and…

You should read more carefully, or listen to interpretations from lawyers. The license referred to in that document is the license to any Facebook patents granted within, which might not even exist.

The patent grant is separate from the copyright license.

Re: On React and WordPress

#63

Post by diminish »

eblanshey wrote: post #32

I'm willing to bet $100 they will switch to Vue. It's similar to react (which they want), arguably easier to learn, and the WordPress community comes from a php background, which has already embraced Vue. This is a big plus for plugin developers.

Vue would be great but preact seems to be a viable option too. Even riot could ..

Re: On React and WordPress

#64

Post by mplewis »

diminish wrote: post #63
eblanshey wrote: post #32

I'm willing to bet $100 they will switch to Vue. It's similar to react (which they want), arguably easier to learn, and the WordPress community comes from a php background, which has already embraced Vue. This is a big plus for plugin developers.

Vue would be great but preact seems to be a viable option too. Even riot could ..

As other commenters have mentioned - if your project violates React patents, and you switch to Preact, it almost certainly continues to violate those same patents.

Re: On React and WordPress

#66

Post by samastur »

morgante wrote: post #48
thristian wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that you lose access to React if you sue Facebook over any patents at all, not just ones that may be relative to React.

You lose the patent grant, which applies to all Facebook open source projects (not just React), so they can use all patents they own as part of a defensive portfolio. If initiating a patent war with Facebook is a foreseeable business outcome for you, then you probably shouldn't use React. I remain convinced that logic applies to only a tiny minority of companies.

What happens if you are not the one who initiated the patent war?

My reading of the license is that you lose Facebook patent grant even if your lawsuit was a response to Facebook's.

I am not a fan of (software) patents, but license restrictions are not limited to them either. So what is your recourse if Facebook decides to infringe yours?

Assuming this is true (IANAL), would you still feel as comfortable advising companies to use React?

I don't begrudge Facebook for their license for the same reasons that Matt stated, but I am highlighting this issue to my clients and would not recommend React's use because of it.

Re: On React and WordPress

#67

Post by TheCoreh »

fiatjaf wrote: post #55

I don't understand why can't you just replace all React with Preact or Inferno-compat. That would take 2 minutes, wouldn't it?

If Facebook has patents covering React, these probably also cover Preact, so you'd actually be in a worse position: Potentially violating patents and not having any sort of grand.

Re: On React and WordPress

#68

Post by skrebbel »

Note that WordPress is ditching React not because they believe there's any problem with React's license and patent grant, but because they think their users will be confused and angry.

In other words, the baseless and meritless outcry about a perfectly OK patent grant caused this, not the patent grant itself.

The subject became taboo, like female nipples in America, and WordPress doesn't want anything to do with the nipples of the open source community.

Re: On React and WordPress

#69

Post by fstephany »

TheCoreh wrote: post #67
fiatjaf wrote: post #55

I don't understand why can't you just replace all React with Preact or Inferno-compat. That would take 2 minutes, wouldn't it?

If Facebook has patents covering React, these probably also cover Preact, so you'd actually be in a worse position: Potentially violating patents and not having any sort of grand.

This is not the issue. The patent clause is not about React, it is about the whole Facebook organization.

Re: On React and WordPress

#70

Post by egeozcan »

koko775 wrote: post #52
hdra wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not Preact? It seems the react compatibility would be very helpful when they already have such a significant investment into react.

How does that protect anyone? Any patents covering React would probably cover Preact.

(IANAL) But you didn't use React so you never accepted that Patents file?
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