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Equihax

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Re: Equihax

#191

Post by skookum »

int_19h wrote: post #187
skookum wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the pile of debt that increases the score. It's the history of repaying that debt per its agreed terms that does. While I'm not a fan of the credit bureau system, I understand the reasoning behind it. It's an efficient way for creditors to get access to the needed information. Lacking that, to allow the bank to evaluate your creditworthiness among other things you'd likely have to provide a list of reference…

The point is that the credit score system is utterly dominated by past credit (and its repayment), even though other factors (like current wealth and income) are far more important in practice - and this leads to paradoxical and absurd situations where someone can be filthy rich, but have low credit score because they have zero credit history, never having taken a loan. Many other countries don't have such a system,…

> other factors (like current wealth and income) are far more important in practice - and this leads to paradoxical and absurd situations

From the perspective of the finance industry, these "absurd situations" are so far below the level of noise that they are effectively theoretical. If you want to discuss "in practice": in practice the users of the US credit system have no "current wealth" worth speaking of (look up the median net worth of US households), and their ability to maintain their existing debt is the defining feature of their financial status.

Re: Equihax

#192

Post by ballenf »

jlgaddis wrote: post #168
vadym909 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If its only the score you want, cant you get that from creditkarma for free?

You can also get it for free from (at least) American Express and Discover if you have a credit card from them. I'm sure there are other card issuers that give it to you for free as well.

And Mint (owned by quicken) so you don't even need to open a new account or ding your credit. They do, however, serve you ads based on your data -- mostly credit card offers.

Re: Equihax

#193

Post by ballenf »

tony101 wrote: post #154
brianmartinek wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless if it's FAKO or FICO score that you are looking at, they are calculated on the same credit history in your credit report (as far as I know). So, even if the scores are calculated in different ways it's reasonable to expect a high VantageScore 3.0 score will also show as a high FICO score too, even if the numbers aren't exact. Does anyone know the specific differences in how these two scores are calculated?

I believe the FICO algorithm is not public, so there would be no way for us to know exactly how they calculate our scores. We only know the factors that go in to the algorithm, and the score that comes out. Basically, a black box.

I've read in another thread here on HN that we also don't know the factors that go in. Someone listed off things like company title, marital status, # kids, car make/model kind of stuff. No idea if they were full of BS, but there's no requirement that the score is based solely on items in your credit report. We can probably (hopefully?) be sure that no race or race-correlated factors are included. (And same for other protected classes.)

Re: Equihax

#195

Post by LambdaComplex »

int_19h wrote: post #186
blondie9x wrote: post #180

Bitcoin and Etherium are used too much for money laundering. They need to be regulated. There is also so much energy used to mine the coins. More than many countries. We need to really think about what we get out of building a money a laundering technology primarily used on the dark net.

Strong encryption is used too much to coordinate illegal activities, such as terrorism. It needs to be regulated. Except, how do you actually intend to regulate it? Enacting a law to do so is easy. Actually enforcing that law is another matter.

And you know who terrorists recruit? Children.

You do care about the children, don't you?

Re: Equihax

#196

Post by limaoscarjuliet »

jlgaddis wrote: post #168
vadym909 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If its only the score you want, cant you get that from creditkarma for free?

You can also get it for free from (at least) American Express and Discover if you have a credit card from them. I'm sure there are other card issuers that give it to you for free as well.

Citibank card holder here - getting free FICO via my online account.

Re: Equihax

#197

Post by systematical »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #42

I actually kinda hope all the data is made public, as that would (at least hopefully) force people to stop treating knowledge of someone's SSN as valid proof of identity, and lead to a better situation overall.

Me too, the current system has a steady leak that cannot be patched. Sink the ship and lets build something better.

This is some Mr. Robot / Fight Club shit. Get it over with.

Re: Equihax

#198

Post by int_19h »

skookum wrote: post #191
int_19h wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that the credit score system is utterly dominated by past credit (and its repayment), even though other factors (like current wealth and income) are far more important in practice - and this leads to paradoxical and absurd situations where someone can be filthy rich, but have low credit score because they have zero credit history, never having taken a loan. Many other countries don't have such a system,…

> other factors (like current wealth and income) are far more important in practice - and this leads to paradoxical and absurd situations From the perspective of the finance industry, these "absurd situations" are so far below the level of noise that they are effectively theoretical. If you want to discuss "in practice": in practice the users of the US credit system have no "current wealth" worth speaking of (look up…

Income is more important than wealth, anyway.

Again, there are many countries - including First World European countries - that don't have the credit score system, or only have reports on non-payments (usually govt-run). They seem to be doing just fine.

Re: Equihax

#199

Post by skookum »

int_19h wrote: post #198
skookum wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> other factors (like current wealth and income) are far more important in practice - and this leads to paradoxical and absurd situations From the perspective of the finance industry, these "absurd situations" are so far below the level of noise that they are effectively theoretical. If you want to discuss "in practice": in practice the users of the US credit system have no "current wealth" worth speaking of (look up…

Income is more important than wealth, anyway. Again, there are many countries - including First World European countries - that don't have the credit score system, or only have reports on non-payments (usually govt-run). They seem to be doing just fine.

Lenders in the US are just trying to maximize their risk-adjusted profit - there's no conspiracy here. If income alone was just as good as income + debt servicing history for making the statistical decisions required to maximize credit industry profits (decisions like whether or not to lend, at what rate, at what ratio to income/assets, etc), do you think the lenders would pay the overhead of the additional useless tracking? Are you suggesting that Equifax & Co. are pulling a fast one on the US lenders and their armies of actuaries and after all these years the lenders haven't noticed the uselessness of the product?

Re: Equihax

#200

Post by dzhiurgis »

ballenf wrote: post #193
tony101 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the FICO algorithm is not public, so there would be no way for us to know exactly how they calculate our scores. We only know the factors that go in to the algorithm, and the score that comes out. Basically, a black box.

I've read in another thread here on HN that we also don't know the factors that go in. Someone listed off things like company title, marital status, # kids, car make/model kind of stuff. No idea if they were full of BS, but there's no requirement that the score is based solely on items in your credit report. We can probably (hopefully?) be sure that no race or race-correlated factors are included. (And same for other…

I remember at uni teacher asking why people with larger shoes are more likely to default?

Answer was: Men tend to have larger feet.

I guess even if you ignore race, sex and other factors, data will seep in eventually anyways.

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