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Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

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Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was present when a facilities manager explained why we shouldn't use spray-cleaner to clean whiteboards, because it wore down the paint faster, and repainting it cost $10k, and that they had already paid to repaint them twice.

That's not proof, it's hearsay.

Indeed, I didn't state that I have proof.

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Considering there is already a shortage of software engineers, constricting it further is unlikely to be net positive. Since there is a short supply of software engineers, why do you think wages haven't risen? >every "open salary" calculator I've seen proposes a salary about half of what I make. Formulaic salaries help low performers and hurt high performers. I suspect that's because businesses manipulate that so th…

> Since there is a short supply of software engineers, why do you think wages haven't risen? They definitely have, at least for the high end of the market. For example, Hired shows a 3.28% increase in salaries for SF engineers this year. [0] > I suspect that's because businesses manipulate that so they can hire offshore workers cheaper. I'm positive that open salary initiatives are not an attempt to hire H1B workers.…

You'd be surprised how many companies aspire to hire Wayne Gretzky - and then complain when he wants new skates every season

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#273
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that because of unions or because of market forces?

Unions are a market force.

Ok, fine. "Is that because of unions or some other market force such as high demand for white board walls relative to the supply of contractors".

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe this. Do you have proof?

I was present when a facilities manager explained why we shouldn't use spray-cleaner to clean whiteboards, because it wore down the paint faster, and repainting it cost $10k, and that they had already paid to repaint them twice.

What does that have to do with unions?

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#275
post #89
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are smart, they should: right now they have a lot of power in the workplace because there is demand for them. This is a problem tech business owners have identified: programmers have too much power on the job relative to their bosses. They require good wages, they require too many benefits, they complain and sue when they are sexually harassed, they demand equity and to be treated well and refuse to accept th…

Your comment shows the real divide on unionization and its not about someone's political ideology, its fundamentally about how they view the profession. If like you said programmers should unionize before the army of $12/hour programmers arrives then what you are claiming is that software development could be done by someone who was trained and willing to accept $12 per hour. Essentially you are making the claim they…

Plane pilots are unionized, at least in UK or US. Your average major airline pilot makes around $130/hour.

Do you consider them a common laborer, like a delivery driver, or a profession that doesn't require a deep understanding of the subject matter?

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#276
post #30

If there is one thing I've learned from two decades of reading about labor history, it's: Every gain labor has ever made has been taken. Every gain the working class (i.e. the overwhelming majority of people) has achieved has come from organizing their majority of low-power workers and then standing strongly against the empowered minority at the top. Good for these people. They are essentially moving our society forw…

Unions claim that every advance made is due to labor organization. They would claim that, wouldn't they.

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if a union would help you specifically because I don't know who you are or who you work for. But in general, a union could negotiate the development practices you and your co-workers want. As an example, if you and your co-workers wanted one week per quarter devoted solely to paying back technical debt, your union could demand it. There is no reason why a union has to do anything in particular at all if…

"There is no reason why a union has to do anything in particular at all if you don't want it to." Yes there it. If a union takes over the workforce of your company, now you have to follow the union rules. If unions were just opt in, them yes you'd be right. But unions are NOT opt in for many states. One you are a union shop, you are screwed if you disagree with the union.

A union is also a democratically-run organization, so if you disagree with it, you have some recourse.

A workplace is not democratically run, so if you disagree with it, you are also screwed, only this time you have no recourse.

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#278
> When the crowd reconvened, Andrew Barney, a former Intel cafeteria worker, drew cheers and applause when he said, “I think Google should pay the residents of this community for being allowed to squat in our backyard.” “Google’s vulnerable right now with all this building and everything they’re doing, and they need a lot of approvals,” says the Teamsters’ Aloise. “We may just pick one, one time, to get involved, and see if we can stop it and have them come to us and say, ‘What do you need?’ ”

This is one of those rare times where "populism" is actually the right word to describe something. The inequalities one can see in the Bay Area are quite flagrant, but this type of mentality is not going to help.

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#279
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There is no reason why a union has to do anything in particular at all if you don't want it to." Yes there it. If a union takes over the workforce of your company, now you have to follow the union rules. If unions were just opt in, them yes you'd be right. But unions are NOT opt in for many states. One you are a union shop, you are screwed if you disagree with the union.

A union is also a democratically-run organization, so if you disagree with it, you have some recourse. A workplace is not democratically run, so if you disagree with it, you are also screwed, only this time you have no recourse.

I'd rather only get screwed by 1 group than have the possibility of being screwed by 2 groups.

Voting and democracy doesn't help anything. I am just 1 vote. I'd rather have things negotiated between me, and only me and the other party.

Re: Organizers have unionized 5,000 contract workers at Apple, Facebook, Yahoo

#280
post #15

No its not. This is a union fluff piece. The reality is these are contractors who will get dropped as soon as it makes sense. Thats why you hire these services as contractors. I think the real test here will be how long till the union pushes facebook too far and they are just dropped. I have never seen a union that could actually compete with non-union shops unless there was a legal force preventing the competition.

> The reality is these are contractors who will get dropped as soon as it makes sense. Thats why you hire these services as contractors. I think the real test here will be how long till the union pushes facebook too far and they are just dropped. That overlooks the whole point of unions, which is to give people power over their work lives and prevent situations like the one you describe. Perhaps the union won't succe…

Not OP, but one example would be the relocation of manufacturing in many sectors away from union strongholds in the northeast US to southern states, Mexico, and Asia. Carrier is a recent example that sticks out in my memory.
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