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From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

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Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#131

Post by Cozumel »

dwaltrip wrote: post #116
santoshalper wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is. I do not believe there is anything she can ever do to balance that scale. Not in 20 years, or 200. She should never have been released from prison. Like it or not, torturing a small child to death is the defining feature of her life.

You do realize others may think that several decades is long enough for a full and thorough reformation to potentially occur? Especially in case like this, when the crime was committed at a young age in a fairly severe context. Obviously, we must perform a careful evaluation to ensure that this is the case. But to deny any possibility of reformation seems wrong, and not reflective of the reality in which people somet…

Ask yourself if you'd be ok with her babysitting your kids? Didn't think so.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#132

Post by ggg9990 »

Yikes, talk about an unsympathetic example for criminal justice reform.

There are plenty of felons who are unjustly punished well after they've left jail for crimes that weren't even that serious. Harvard deciding that they didn't want a child murderer around their undergrads isn't an example of that.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#133

Post by ggg9990 »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #66
wallace_f wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going against the herd here and going to say that people are losing their minds. If I intentionally, over days and weeks, repeatedly beat, tortured and murdered a defenseless child? I would do the honor of killing myself so someone else wouldn't be burdened with it. It is simply horrendous and unacceptable. The amount of degeneracy we're being taught to accept, and even appreciate, is starting to be awful. Her resear…

At the same time, I see why it was done. Should someone who happened to go to prison have limited prospects for the rest of their life? Should someone who happened to get arrested for drugs need to work hard labor for the rest of their life to survive?

Someone arrested for drug possession shouldn't have limited prospects for the rest of their lives, and child murderers shouldn't be invited to the country's most respected intellectual institutions. I don't find that self-contradictory.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#134

Post by ggg9990 »

CossieRay wrote: post #87
wallace_f wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing wrong with choosing to put chemicals in your body as long as you aren't hurting anybody else in the process. There is something horribly wrong with torture and murder of a 4 year old. How many good and decent people work hard labor most of their lives simply because they were born on the wrong side of some arbitrarily drawn border? Because they happen to be born into a world where their intellectual…

At what point will she simply be referred to as Michelle Jones as opposed to "this child murderer"? It's just not right to blatantly disregard all her twenty years of transformation

It's just not right to blatantly disregard her child murder. "Hello students, I am your professor, and this is your graduate instructor Michelle. She'll be helping you prepare for your midterm exams, and also she murdered a 4-year-old."

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#135

Post by ggg9990 »

danso wrote: post #26
johan_larson wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, she is a convicted murderer. And just try to imagine the magnitude of the blowback if she ever did anything wrong on campus, particularly to some precious darling of wealthy and connected parents. I'm not saying the Harvard administration made the right choice here, but they certainly had cause to be cautious.

So why ever release prisoners? Should institutions always be doubtful bystanders of the U.S. justice system and its rehabilitation guidelines?

Why ever release someone who murderered a 4-year-old? Do we need to bother to find out whether something can be saved there? Why not treat it like a traffic accident death and say "this person is equivalent to nonexistent" and keep her in the prison until she is dead?

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#136

Post by anigbrowl »

tomcam wrote: post #126
dwaltrip wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize others may think that several decades is long enough for a full and thorough reformation to potentially occur? Especially in case like this, when the crime was committed at a young age in a fairly severe context. Obviously, we must perform a careful evaluation to ensure that this is the case. But to deny any possibility of reformation seems wrong, and not reflective of the reality in which people somet…

If I understand correctly, the problem was that she herself minimized her actions when she applied for the programs. I believe the problem was not rehabilitation, the problem was they seem to have felt she was deceptive from the beginning.

If that were true then it would have come as a surprise to the history department that did want to hire her. She earned her undergraduate degree and published from within prison, so it wasn't a secret. The history department had to assist her with the submission of her application because she was unable to use the online application system from within prison.

The professors' whose memo questioned whether she had minimized her crime “to the point of misrepresentation” are complaining that her application focused on her academic achievements and not enough on her crime. In doing so, they are setting themselves up as better assessors of her rehabilitation than the parole board which specializes in that task and has her whole legal and custodial history.

Professor Stauffer's subsequent comments about how it would play on fox News suggest that he's more concerned with appearances than academic rigor. His fear of criticism undermines his academic mission.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#137

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

Geekette wrote: post #113
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're trying to extrapolate too much from too little information. However, I do believe in some minimum level of culpability for your actions. Serial killers aren't excused for their often terrible childhoods. I think child killers belong in the same box. The idea that anyone in modern society "didn't know better" than to beat their small child then leave them for days strikes me as farcical.

She was a 14 year old child who was raped, who had experienced other abuse before and while pregnant. Given her circumstances, she probably had no access to alternatives or any real choice in whether/not to bear a child that resulted from rape. Given her upbringing and the manner of conception, it's not surprising she transferred patterns of abuse onto the child. Not excusing the crime or culpability (she was punishe…

I know you say you're not excusing her but forgive me because it seems like you sort of are, especially with this: "its what she'd learned and knew no better." I understand giving victims of abuse a bit of lee-way and understanding, I think that Michelle's crime though absolutely blows past that understanding though. If Michelle Jones was thrown in jail for using drugs or prostitution or any number of things I would be able to side with her on this. Child abuse, child neglect, child murder though? I can't do that.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#139

Post by adam_seeliger »

dang wrote: post #123
cottonflucker wrote: post #2

Nigger killed her kid, Harvard won't take her. Cue outrage

We've banned both this account and your main account as well. Obviously no one is allowed to post to Hacker News like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (Users rightly flagged the parent comment, but I've unkilled it to be able to reply.)

Thought police at work here.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#140

Post by adam_seeliger »

wallace_f wrote: post #65
jackmott wrote: post #3

I don't understand why we let people out of prison if we aren't prepared to actually let them out of prison. I'm not really bleeding heart about this, I'd be fine with any murder of this sort meaning life in prison. What does not make sense is letting someone out and then not treating them as normal humans again. It only encourages people to revert to evil.

Going against the herd here and going to say that people are losing their minds. If I intentionally, over days and weeks, repeatedly beat, tortured and murdered a defenseless child? I would do the honor of killing myself so someone else wouldn't be burdened with it. It is simply horrendous and unacceptable. The amount of degeneracy we're being taught to accept, and even appreciate, is starting to be awful. Her resear…

Are you trolling, or just an idiot? Ross Ulbricht, Snowden and Swartz did do something wrong.
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