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Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

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Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#111

Post by redog »

ckastner wrote: post #76
qznc wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a drop over 12 days. It also dropped 20% in 4 days after hitting the $4500 all-time-high a month ago. It dropped 30% in 4 days after hitting the $3000 all-time-high three months ago. It dropped 30% in 2 days after hitting the $2700 all-time-high four months ago. Everything is fine.

I honestly can't tell whether you're being sarcastic or not.

No, his numbers are correct. The drops always settle higher than last "crash"'s peak. How long it will continue is anyones guess.. I think It goes on for quite awhile longer. BTC will eventually get expensive very to create but if the network is being used those creators should have lots of fees to help cover their work. If they don't then they're going to stop mining.

Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#112

Post by rothbardrand »

ckastner wrote: post #76
qznc wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a drop over 12 days. It also dropped 20% in 4 days after hitting the $4500 all-time-high a month ago. It dropped 30% in 4 days after hitting the $3000 all-time-high three months ago. It dropped 30% in 2 days after hitting the $2700 all-time-high four months ago. Everything is fine.

I honestly can't tell whether you're being sarcastic or not.

It started the year under $1,200. He's not being sarcastic, this is a very volatile currency.

The reason is, it's not so much a currency as a store of value that is simultaneously benefiting from global bad monetary policy and the cycles of technology adoption.

I don't even think Bitcoin has crossed the chasm.

It's a new asset class.

Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#114

Post by rothbardrand »

elif wrote: post #49
koolba wrote: post #2

> The cryptocurrency traded at $3,601.40 at 7:58 a.m. in New York, far below an all-time high of $5,013.91 set earlier this month. That's a 28% drop from the high. For normal securities a price drop like that in less than a month would be considered a crash. Does it count for BTC as well or are the elevated levels at the start of the month with too thin a volume to be considered legit?

If a security dropped 28% on a 1-month basis, it wouldn't still be up 60% on a 2-month basis. Apples and oranges. IMO, this is an obvious correction from the most intense bull run bitcoin has seen.

Ironically, this is not the most intense bull run bitcoin has seen. It is a strong bull run for recent years, however, but Bitcoin is getting less volatile over time.

Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#115

Post by aecorredor »

danmaz74 wrote: post #93
raesene6 wrote: post #87

It would seem that if China shuts down domestic Bitcoin exchanges that could have quite a big impact on the network as it could make the position of miners in china difficult. Looking at articles like ( https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/mining/china/ ) ~70% of all mining power is handled by China based groups, so it'd be a big change for that to be removed...

I think that big miners wouldn't have such a big problem if the exchanges get shut down - as long as they export bitcoins and import dollars or other currencies, buying those in foreign cryptoexchanges, the government should be happy. What the government probably doesn't like is the other way around, when normal people buy BTC with yuan and then sell them abroad, exporting capitals.

"What the government probably doesn't like is the other way around, when normal people buy BTC with yuan and then sell them abroad, exporting capitals."

Don't they also get some type of currency back when they do this? which is probably then spent inside China too? I don't see how this would be different from the first scenario. Maybe I'm missing something.

Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#116

Post by artofcode »

gourou wrote: post #107
artofcode wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't ban 'all cryptocurrencies'. They banned ICO's instead, and (afaik) it's a temporary ban until proper regulations are in place.

You're right. However, I doubt they'll add proper regulations for hundreds of cryptocurrencies. What makes you think they will?

If they ban it completely and the demand remains, it'll disappear underground, while if the government embraces it and puts AML/KYC (and most likely cash-limits) in place, they can control (and tax) it.

Local bitcoins is already out there and if those get blocked by the great firewall of China, alternatives will pop up soon enough.

Also the ICO environment is littered with complete utter garbage and I can see lots of people getting burned when jumping in uninformed, which seems to be happening on an accelerated pace these days.

Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#117

Post by stanleydrew »

tryingagainbro wrote: post #83
davidbeep wrote: post #71

China not loving bitcoin and not being onboard isn't news. A communist government not agreeing with a decentralized currency shouldn't come as a surprise. Speculators who invest should understand that clearly, and not go into panic when China makes decisions that are very China-like. The good news is that it's a perfect time to buy more bitcoin and ether at a discounted price.

>> The good news is that it's a perfect time to buy more bitcoin and ether at a discounted price. Why is it discounted? Did their PE drop or what? I mean, why????

Because the price you can pay today is lower than the price someone else happened to pay a few days ago. It's purely psychological.

Most people who claim BTC is discounted now at $3500 probably also believe that BTC is a long-term good "investment", which would imply that they also think it's "discounted" at $5000.

I guess this is obvious to all, but there are no well-understood "fundamentals" yet for BTC.

The most charitable thing you can say is that buying at $3500 now is a better deal than buying at $3500 previously, given it's now been revealed that someone was willing to pay $5000 at one point.

Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#118

Post by fspeech »

outwebyou wrote: post #96
davidbeep wrote: post #71

China not loving bitcoin and not being onboard isn't news. A communist government not agreeing with a decentralized currency shouldn't come as a surprise. Speculators who invest should understand that clearly, and not go into panic when China makes decisions that are very China-like. The good news is that it's a perfect time to buy more bitcoin and ether at a discounted price.

First of all, China is an authoritarian government, not a communist government. Second of all, China is doing this because they are suffering from [hidden] massive outflow, and need to clamp down on that. The Chinese economy is slowly collapsing from all the malinvestments, and the rich folks are trying to get their money out. Look at the richest man in China, Wang Jianlin, unable to leave China https://www.bloomberg…

"Wang Jianlin meets Hong Kong’s ex-chief executive Tung, quashing talk he’s barred from travelling"

http://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/2110610/...

Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#119

Post by rothbardrand »

raesene6 wrote: post #87

It would seem that if China shuts down domestic Bitcoin exchanges that could have quite a big impact on the network as it could make the position of miners in china difficult. Looking at articles like ( https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/mining/china/ ) ~70% of all mining power is handled by China based groups, so it'd be a big change for that to be removed...

OCT BTC trading is legal in china.

The issue is with the exchanges not being fully regulated according to the desires of the PBOC. This was the problem earlier in the year. They are tightening the screws.

But you can sell BTC to people you know face to face and it's legal.

Re: Bitcoin dropping after BTC China said it is closing

#120

Post by v64 »

nwah1 wrote: post #58
v64 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash can be used for illegal purposes too. Private, unencumbered, tax-free transactions have licit purposes as well.

How are you encumbered with normal currency? And how are you able to avoid taxes with bitcoin in a way that is legal?

> How are you encumbered with normal currency?

A simple example would be if I want to pay someone a large amount of money (>$10,000) privately. Using credit or a check creates a financial record. Cash is the only way to keep the transaction completely private. With such a large sum, it can become non-trivial to transport that much cash, especially internationally. There's also the obvious issue of securely transporting that much physical currency. With cryptocurrency, I can transport arbitrary units of value over the internet with the security of cryptography.

You may argue that there's no legitimate transaction that would occur at that high of a dollar amount, but I think that's a matter of opinion, and that individuals should be able to transact one to one without involving any third parties to transfer value.

> And how are you able to avoid taxes with bitcoin in a way that is legal?

This is a bit of a gray area. At the most illicit end, it's a total tax dodge by laundering/concealing income. At the legal end, I understand that there are cases where the taxes you're supposed to pay on bitcoin gains works out better than if you had made that gain through a stock or other type of investment. I haven't converted large amounts of cryptocurrency to USD or vice versa, so I'm not totally familiar with the IRS reporting for crypto assets.

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