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From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

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Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#61

Post by Geekette »

tomjen3 wrote: post #52
Geekette wrote: post #12

This story is an example of how rehabilitation is acceptable only in concept, not reality for many, regardless of what they might profess. The student added a personal statement (which wasn't required) about her crime and record. Yet, 2 people's "concerns", which they didn't bother to address with the applicant caused the admission to be rescinded. The school's decision in prioritizing appearances/what others will th…

There are things you can be rehabilitated from and there are things you can't. Also rehabilitation doesn't have too be complete.

Your point is unclear: Are you saying she isn't or can't be rehabilitated or her rehabilitation isn't complete?

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#62

Post by pc86 »

Geekette wrote: post #57
pc86 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine there are plenty of very highly qualified scholars who, to use the professor's own words, "happen to be a minority," that never killed their infant child.

Plenty of very highly qualified scholars who didn't grow up in the context that she did, whose backgrounds aren't comparable. Doesn't make her less deserving of this opportunity; she committed a crime and did her time, she's allowed to move on.

She absolutely is and should not have any impediments from the state in moving on with her life. Private individuals and institutions are under no such obligation, though.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#63

Post by samstave »

As a father of three, the heinous crime against a small child, in the way described, in my mind, is unforgivable. I couldn't care less about here PHD - and that smug look in that picture makes her worse in my eyes, not "redeemed"

You don't beat a four year old child then leave them locked in an apartment to die.

Fuck her.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#64

Post by biotech »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #46
jackmott wrote: post #3

I don't understand why we let people out of prison if we aren't prepared to actually let them out of prison. I'm not really bleeding heart about this, I'd be fine with any murder of this sort meaning life in prison. What does not make sense is letting someone out and then not treating them as normal humans again. It only encourages people to revert to evil.

Because keeping someone in prison for life after a fairly minor felony, committed when someone is 18 or 19 (and possibly still in high school) seems cruel and unusual punishment. The current system lets the government not take the blame for the lifetime of punishment the person might face. Of course, in my eyes the government still takes the blame for such things.

How is murdering a 4 year old child a "fairly minor" felony??

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#65

Post by wallace_f »

jackmott wrote: post #3

I don't understand why we let people out of prison if we aren't prepared to actually let them out of prison. I'm not really bleeding heart about this, I'd be fine with any murder of this sort meaning life in prison. What does not make sense is letting someone out and then not treating them as normal humans again. It only encourages people to revert to evil.

Going against the herd here and going to say that people are losing their minds. If I intentionally, over days and weeks, repeatedly beat, tortured and murdered a defenseless child? I would do the honor of killing myself so someone else wouldn't be burdened with it. It is simply horrendous and unacceptable.

The amount of degeneracy we're being taught to accept, and even appreciate, is starting to be awful. Her research was even along those same lines: a meta project on the value created by incarcerated researchers.

I'm not saying she shouldn't still have her civil and constitutional rights. She certainly shouldn't ever be subject to abuse or cruel and unusual punishment. But should she be represented at our most esteemed institutions? Come on.

What about Ross Ulbricht? Snowden? Aaron Swartz? There are countless people who have done nothing but go to great lengths to give people liberties, and yet effectively serve life sentences for doing nothing wrong? Why focus so much energy on promoting legitimate child murderers? It makes absolutely no sense to me.

If anything, the energy spent here could be better spent elsewhere.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#66

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

wallace_f wrote: post #65
jackmott wrote: post #3

I don't understand why we let people out of prison if we aren't prepared to actually let them out of prison. I'm not really bleeding heart about this, I'd be fine with any murder of this sort meaning life in prison. What does not make sense is letting someone out and then not treating them as normal humans again. It only encourages people to revert to evil.

Going against the herd here and going to say that people are losing their minds. If I intentionally, over days and weeks, repeatedly beat, tortured and murdered a defenseless child? I would do the honor of killing myself so someone else wouldn't be burdened with it. It is simply horrendous and unacceptable. The amount of degeneracy we're being taught to accept, and even appreciate, is starting to be awful. Her resear…

At the same time, I see why it was done. Should someone who happened to go to prison have limited prospects for the rest of their life? Should someone who happened to get arrested for drugs need to work hard labor for the rest of their life to survive?

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#67

Post by wallace_f »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #66
wallace_f wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going against the herd here and going to say that people are losing their minds. If I intentionally, over days and weeks, repeatedly beat, tortured and murdered a defenseless child? I would do the honor of killing myself so someone else wouldn't be burdened with it. It is simply horrendous and unacceptable. The amount of degeneracy we're being taught to accept, and even appreciate, is starting to be awful. Her resear…

At the same time, I see why it was done. Should someone who happened to go to prison have limited prospects for the rest of their life? Should someone who happened to get arrested for drugs need to work hard labor for the rest of their life to survive?

There is nothing wrong with choosing to put chemicals in your body as long as you aren't hurting anybody else in the process.

There is something horribly wrong with torture and murder of a 4 year old.

How many good and decent people work hard labor most of their lives simply because they were born on the wrong side of some arbitrarily drawn border? Because they happen to be born into a world where their intellectual capabilities are relatively low?

I have no sympathy for this child murderer for not getting into Harvard.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#68

Post by nxsynonym »

moneytalks wrote: post #60

Can't believe we're to the point of debating whether a private educational institution can base an admissions decision, in part, on a past murder conviction. This isn't about redemption or rehabilitation. No one is suggesting she's going to beat, starve, abandon and murder another 4-year-old. That's very unlikely. But, what we are suggesting is that a private institution should be able to consider a person's entire s…

>>But maybe the issue here is that the woman's punishment was much less than what most people would consider full justice, so they feel compelled to mete out slightly more to compensate.

Peoples justice is not justice, it's revenge. You can't cherry pick the decisions of the justice system to fit your personal world views. You either believe in the ability of the justice system to impose the correct sentences, or you don't.

This private institution can base their decisions on anything they want, but in this particular case the reasoning is asinine and cowardly. It has nothing to do with her as a person and everything to do with a bad PR incident.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#69

Post by nyolfen »

throwaway287391 wrote: post #21
subroutine wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some quotes from the article makes it seem like they are more worried about the potential social and political backlash, than their personal beliefs on whether she has been rehabilitated. > " We didn’t have some preconceived idea about crucifying Michelle,” said John Stauffer, one of the two American studies professors. “But frankly, we knew that anyone could just punch her crime into Google, and Fox News would proba…

... wow. I'm pretty shocked that a Harvard prof would admit to overturning someone's admission due in part to them being a racial minority, fearing the prospect of bad press from Fox News . Fox has really won the culture wars in a major way.

i'm pretty sure they turned her away for being a child murderer

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#70

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

Geekette wrote: post #47
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you can claim that. Prior abuse does not preclude cold or premeditated murder. In fact we don't have much details at all except that she beat her son, left him alone for several days and then buried the body later. That's reprehensible enough for me to say that I wouldn't want to work with her.

The post states she had a suffered psychological breakdown at that time, which clearly indicates she wasn't in the right frame of mind. It also outlined how the patterns of abuse she grew up with contributed to how she treated the child generally; its what she'd learned and knew no better.

I think we're trying to extrapolate too much from too little information. However, I do believe in some minimum level of culpability for your actions. Serial killers aren't excused for their often terrible childhoods. I think child killers belong in the same box. The idea that anyone in modern society "didn't know better" than to beat their small child then leave them for days strikes me as farcical.
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