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From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

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Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#51

Post by sgift »

pc86 wrote: post #45
sgift wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The incarceration is the punishment handed out by the state, the state being a proxy of 'society'. There is however no moral obligation for any citizen to take over the stance of that 'abstract society' that a prisoner can be released for whatever reason. While true this is a reflection on society itself. Some people learn this the hard way, when they end on the wrong side of it and then ask "why do people not forg…

> You either stand for your principles in all circumstances or none. Your principles can simultaneously include "the prison system is badly broken and desperately in need to huge reforms" and "parents who brutally murder their children should never see another sunrise as a free person" without any cognitive dissonance.

That they can - it's just a very different principle from the one which is about helping everyone after their prison time.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#52

Post by tomjen3 »

Geekette wrote: post #12

This story is an example of how rehabilitation is acceptable only in concept, not reality for many, regardless of what they might profess. The student added a personal statement (which wasn't required) about her crime and record. Yet, 2 people's "concerns", which they didn't bother to address with the applicant caused the admission to be rescinded. The school's decision in prioritizing appearances/what others will th…

There are things you can be rehabilitated from and there are things you can't. Also rehabilitation doesn't have too be complete.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#53

Post by Beltiras »

Gracana wrote: post #37
Beltiras wrote: post #25

> Jones got pregnant at 14 after what she called non-consensual sex with a high-school senior. Why minimize? Sounds like rape.

It may be difficult for her to talk about.

That's the presentation by the journalist, not a quote.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#54

Post by fhood »

adamors wrote: post #49
eisrep wrote: post #42

Unrelated to the story but I'm not too fond of taking over the scroll wheel for transitions. Sure, it's a cool effect here but it tricked me into thinking I had my Ctrl key pressed down somehow. It's not enough to make me leave but it is a bit disorienting, if not annoying.

I'm looking at the page on a MBP and I can't read anything. How did you get it working? Both the touchpad and the up/down arrows just change the size of the text.

here is the nytimes version if that helps

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/us/harvard-nyu-prison-mic...

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#55

Post by ovao »

eisrep wrote: post #42

Unrelated to the story but I'm not too fond of taking over the scroll wheel for transitions. Sure, it's a cool effect here but it tricked me into thinking I had my Ctrl key pressed down somehow. It's not enough to make me leave but it is a bit disorienting, if not annoying.

On mobile, my first thought was that something had bugged out and caused single finger pinch-to-zoom. Had my digitizer broken...?

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#56

Post by fhood »

throwaway287391 wrote: post #21
subroutine wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some quotes from the article makes it seem like they are more worried about the potential social and political backlash, than their personal beliefs on whether she has been rehabilitated. > " We didn’t have some preconceived idea about crucifying Michelle,” said John Stauffer, one of the two American studies professors. “But frankly, we knew that anyone could just punch her crime into Google, and Fox News would proba…

... wow. I'm pretty shocked that a Harvard prof would admit to overturning someone's admission due in part to them being a racial minority, fearing the prospect of bad press from Fox News . Fox has really won the culture wars in a major way.

Why would Harvard actually care what Fox news thinks? Honest question.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#57

Post by Geekette »

pc86 wrote: post #43
Geekette wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse, he's apparently a scholar on antislavery and professor of African American Studies, i.e. a demographic supposedly more cognizant of barriers minorities face and importance of their getting opportunities like admission to Harvard.

I imagine there are plenty of very highly qualified scholars who, to use the professor's own words, "happen to be a minority," that never killed their infant child.

Plenty of very highly qualified scholars who didn't grow up in the context that she did, whose backgrounds aren't comparable. Doesn't make her less deserving of this opportunity; she committed a crime and did her time, she's allowed to move on.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#58

Post by eisrep »

adamors wrote: post #49
eisrep wrote: post #42

Unrelated to the story but I'm not too fond of taking over the scroll wheel for transitions. Sure, it's a cool effect here but it tricked me into thinking I had my Ctrl key pressed down somehow. It's not enough to make me leave but it is a bit disorienting, if not annoying.

I'm looking at the page on a MBP and I can't read anything. How did you get it working? Both the touchpad and the up/down arrows just change the size of the text.

I believe you just have to scroll down far enough.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#59

Post by samstave »

eisrep wrote: post #42

Unrelated to the story but I'm not too fond of taking over the scroll wheel for transitions. Sure, it's a cool effect here but it tricked me into thinking I had my Ctrl key pressed down somehow. It's not enough to make me leave but it is a bit disorienting, if not annoying.

Jesus, it makes it super horrible on mobile... enough to drive me away.

Re: From Prison to Ph.D.: The Redemption and Rejection of Michelle Jones

#60

Post by moneytalks »

Can't believe we're to the point of debating whether a private educational institution can base an admissions decision, in part, on a past murder conviction.

This isn't about redemption or rehabilitation. No one is suggesting she's going to beat, starve, abandon and murder another 4-year-old. That's very unlikely.

But, what we are suggesting is that a private institution should be able to consider a person's entire story in their admissions decision.

Crimes have consequences beyond the government imposed sentence. But maybe the issue here is that the woman's punishment was much less than what most people would consider full justice, so they feel compelled to mete out slightly more to compensate.

And you say, but look at all she's contributed to society with her research! And I say we'll never know what her son may have contributed and she took him from the world.

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