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Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

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Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#71

Post by wx196 »

tyingq wrote: post #16

There are quite a few products that attempt to be a web based equivalent of Access. The two that seem to be the closest to me are Google's AppMaker ( https://developers.google.com/appmaker/ ) and Bubble.is ( https://bubble.is/ ). I call these two out because they both allow for coding when the "default path" runs into a wall, and both include more than just forms and tables. However, they both still have warts. Appma…

You missed somehow 3 the most powerfull alternatives, Outsystems, Filemaker and Oracle Apex.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#72

Post by le-mark »

crispyambulance wrote: post #60

> ... a simple platform for creating CRUD apps. It doesn’t seem like an unachievable goal to me: you need the ability to create forms, design database tables, manage user permissions, manage data workflow (ie: send an sms if , seek approval from for ), and view/search data. That's actually a tall order that you're asking for. For the most basic needs, Excel with macros and connections to data-sources like csv files i…

I'd also add, that there are a lot of "database as a service" services around now, when coupled with a javascript frontent, essentially fulfill the role of "front end to a database" that Access was essentially.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#73

Post by wila »

emmelaich wrote: post #39
wila wrote: post #17

Not an MS Access clone, but a good 4GL easy database tool I like is called DataFlex [0] Very easy to use and you can create basic applications without additional programming. Although of course it helps if you know how-to write code. There's an embedded database that you can use out of the box. But you can also use any of the main SQL Database engines. For building commercial applications you have to buy a developers…

That's crazy, I used DataFlex briefly over 30 years ago. Had no idea it was still going.

Yep, but it has changed quite a bit since then.

30 years ago there was only console mode, albeit in different flavors (unix/DOS). Nowadays the main product is Windows oriented and also has a Web offering. You can still buy a console mode linux version, but it hasn't had updates in over a decade. Yes it runs and works on recent Linux versions, no I would not recommend spending any money on that.

Your 30 years old data files however could still be read. You might need to migrate it to a newer format if you want to extend and change things, but it would still work.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#75

Post by liotier »

gadders wrote: post #67
liotier wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Corporate IT doesn't like the Front Office getting Access, as they still ask for support when their home-brew app goes wrong. The Access contraption then gets an ODBC backend to a proper database. Then parts of the Access Visual Basic spaghetti get ported to PHP. Other parts get ported to JSP. It ends up getting entirely ported - but for lack of budget for a full rewrite, the previously developed JSP parts are pres…

Anyone that has ever done, say, a Windows or Office upgrade for a large corporate knows the pain of cataloging all the End User Apps.

Oh yes - I forgot to mention the schlepping of VBS code across two Microsoft Office upgrades during the application's lifetime... And the migration exemptions that last for years while the porting is done - lots of love from the desktop IT department to this application...

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#76

Post by crispyambulance »

exelius wrote: post #59
scandox wrote: post #18

One of the things several colleagues have said to me over the years is that Access tended to be a dangerous tool in a large organisation: like Excel but on crack. You end up with a large number of autonomous, undocumented systems built on an ad-hoc basis by personnel who were often not even in a technical role. Personally I think that sounds like a great way to leverage the domain expertise of lots of different emplo…

You also end up with a mess of VBScript code that isn't versioned. When something breaks and someone calls IT, it really helps if IT knows the system exists. In a large organization, supporting disjointed business processes (or worse, fragile amateurish integrations) costs more than the software. At scale, consistency matters more than performance variance in some areas. Access is also a nightmare from a security sta…

Yeah, but these things exist because they started as experiments which did not warrant getting a team of developers to burn through a million dollars for the first version.

Its really hard to know, in advance, which internal applications are worthy of a development team. As for nightmares... there's plenty to go around for everyone. Some of the worst nightmares are created by large teams of highly paid and skilled developers.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#77

Post by tyingq »

wx196 wrote: post #71
tyingq wrote: post #16

There are quite a few products that attempt to be a web based equivalent of Access. The two that seem to be the closest to me are Google's AppMaker ( https://developers.google.com/appmaker/ ) and Bubble.is ( https://bubble.is/ ). I call these two out because they both allow for coding when the "default path" runs into a wall, and both include more than just forms and tables. However, they both still have warts. Appma…

You missed somehow 3 the most powerfull alternatives, Outsystems, Filemaker and Oracle Apex.

My list is products that were web based, offered as a service, and with up front pricing. That said, I'm sure I missed others as well.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#78

Post by candiodari »

I figured we need a summary in here. Open source MS access alternatives (indexed from other comments):

There's MS access of course https://products.office.com/en-au/access

Open Source

  LibreOffice Base https://www.libreoffice.org/discover/base/
  Kexi https://www.kde.org/applications/office/kexi/
  Gnome DB http://www.gnome-db.org/
  Lazarus (better for programming, worse for DB) https://www.lazarus-ide.org/
Web based

  Oracle Apex https://apex.oracle.com/en/
  Google AppMaker https://developers.google.com/appmaker/ ($10/user, only paid users can access app)
  Bubble.is https://bubble.is/
  Quickbase http://www.quickbase.com/
  Caspio https://www.caspio.com/
  Airtable https://airtable.com/
  Zoho Creator https://www.zoho.com/creator/
  Rajic https://www.ragic.com/
  Knack https://www.knack.com/
Other desktop apps

  FileMaker Pro http://www.filemaker.com/products/filemaker-pro/ (predates everything else in this list, beautiful, if somewhat limited, app)
  Embarcadero (Borland) Delphi https://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi
  DataFlex http://www.dataaccess.com
Really more programming frameworks, but sort-of fit the bill

  Python Django https://www.djangoproject.com/
  Ruby On Rails http://rubyonrails.org/

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#79

Post by tyingq »

princekolt wrote: post #56
tyingq wrote: post #16

There are quite a few products that attempt to be a web based equivalent of Access. The two that seem to be the closest to me are Google's AppMaker ( https://developers.google.com/appmaker/ ) and Bubble.is ( https://bubble.is/ ). I call these two out because they both allow for coding when the "default path" runs into a wall, and both include more than just forms and tables. However, they both still have warts. Appma…

Is this Twitter's business model? Buy every company they can and shut them down?

It seems to have slowed some lately, but the whole "Acquihire + Shutdown the Product" model was popular with other SV firms too.

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-so-many-startups-are-bein...

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#80

Post by meredydd »

candiodari wrote: post #78

I figured we need a summary in here. Open source MS access alternatives (indexed from other comments): There's MS access of course https://products.office.com/en-au/access Open Source LibreOffice Base https://www.libreoffice.org/discover/base/ Kexi https://www.kde.org/applications/office/kexi/ Gnome DB http://www.gnome-db.org/ Lazarus (better for programming, worse for DB) https://www.lazarus-ide.org/ Web based Oracl…

I think https://anvil.works belongs in your "Web based" category as well.

(Although perhaps with the same note as Lazarus - fundamentally, it's a [Python!] programming environment with a DB attached, rather than a DB with a programming environment attached.)

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