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Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

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Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#61

Post by nexxer »

CPLX wrote: post #6

FileMaker Pro has been around forever and is still supported with new versions as far as I know.

This brings back incredibly relevant memories: my first paid job back in 2002-2003 was maintaining an old Filemaker database and related forms.

I ended up doing an Access database and created a few forms on top of it, including automation for automatically exporting order forms as Word documents. There were a few gotchas in writing VBA but overall the process was easy to pick up and be productive quickly.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#62

Post by Notre1 »

I wonder if the small business market is just not that profitable. In that space you are typically dealing with companies and people that are extremely price sensitive. (This is just a educated guess here, but I would be willing to bet that small business customers "cost" more in support costs, too.)

Something like Access is, pretty strictly, a small business play. When you move into the "medium" part of SMB, they are probably going to have complex enough needs that Access isn't going to cut it.

I'm guessing that you can make the small business market work, when it's an add-on to the medium-sized business market, but that it doesn't really work well by itself, at least as far as technology companies go.

Can anyone think of any technology companies that have done well, while focusing on just small businesses as customers?

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#63

Post by liotier »

gadders wrote: post #41
kimi wrote: post #5

Maybe because writing an Access database still requires a programmer, and you can get better value by hiring a PHP programmer to write two pages and three tables.

The thing is though, you actually require a server and apache etc for the PHP example. For a front office/business person who doesn't do IT as a full time job but has a reasonable grasp of technology, they can create something "good enough" quite easily, without having to go through the whole Corporate IT process. This is also why Corporate IT doesn't like the Front Office getting Access, as they still ask for suppor…

> Corporate IT doesn't like the Front Office getting Access, as they still ask for support when their home-brew app goes wrong.

The Access contraption then gets an ODBC backend to a proper database. Then parts of the Access Visual Basic spaghetti get ported to PHP. Other parts get ported to JSP. It ends up getting entirely ported - but for lack of budget for a full rewrite, the previously developed JSP parts are preserved. The whole thing doesn't take advantage of contemporary UI patterns because it closely matches the design of the original Access database. I'll spare you all the episodes of crippling slowness and the data corruption catastrophes that triggered each improvement increment.

On the other hand, the users managed to build themselves a serviceable tool when the IT wouldn't even speak to them without a ten-months project - and then they foisted it upon IT... From their point of view the ugly ten-years journey has been a success !

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#64

Post by teilo »

Bellyache5 wrote: post #50
giancarlostoro wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sort of surprised LibreOffice hasn't tried to fill this gap, it would be a nice way for them to earn some income if they do it just right enough. I say this because Open Source projects need to be funded some way, somehow.

LibreOffice Base ( http://www.libreoffice.org/discover/base/ ) fills the gap. It's a combination Access-like local database as well as a ODBC/JDBC client.

LibreOffice suffers from it's terrible scripting language. Compared to VBA it is wordy, non-obvious, and in general a royal PITA to work with.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#65

Post by jseliger »

kimi wrote: post #5

Maybe because writing an Access database still requires a programmer, and you can get better value by hiring a PHP programmer to write two pages and three tables.

Likely correct. I'm part of a grant writing firm (http://www.seliger.com) and in the '90s and early 2000s we ran tons of stuff on Access. Now almost everything we did then runs on Highrise, Constant Contact / Mail Chimp, and the like. Basically, everything we did became a web app that works better and is easier (at least for us) to use.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#66

Post by teilo »

therealmarv wrote: post #21

Borland Delphi was the modern MS Access clone. Ever have seen how fast you can build an DB app with that? I'm sure the newest version of Delphi is still as good today as the 2001/2003 version at that time ;) On Mac it is Filemaker or not?

Filemaker has many issues: It's not an RDB, it's SQL support is limited to poor, and it's scripting is not nearly as versatile as Access.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#67

Post by gadders »

liotier wrote: post #63
gadders wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is though, you actually require a server and apache etc for the PHP example. For a front office/business person who doesn't do IT as a full time job but has a reasonable grasp of technology, they can create something "good enough" quite easily, without having to go through the whole Corporate IT process. This is also why Corporate IT doesn't like the Front Office getting Access, as they still ask for suppor…

> Corporate IT doesn't like the Front Office getting Access, as they still ask for support when their home-brew app goes wrong. The Access contraption then gets an ODBC backend to a proper database. Then parts of the Access Visual Basic spaghetti get ported to PHP. Other parts get ported to JSP. It ends up getting entirely ported - but for lack of budget for a full rewrite, the previously developed JSP parts are pres…

Anyone that has ever done, say, a Windows or Office upgrade for a large corporate knows the pain of cataloging all the End User Apps.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#68

Post by LarryMade2 »

One of the most easiest to approach I think was ClarisWorks/AppleWorks database, simple table DB nice form and report builder. Versatile but definitely limited so users weren't lulled into a feeling they could do everything with it, enough to keep it useful.

Pretty much a FileMaker light. (same company)

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#69

Post by jenkstom »

I was never a big fan of Access, it was no so great compared to Delphi, Paradox and even systems like DBase, Clipper, etc. There is a clone of Delphi around, based on Free Pascal called Lazarus.

But honestly this whole thing has moved to the web these days. Something like Django is probably the easiest and fastest way to do a CRUD app these days.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't there a modern MS Access clone?

#70

Post by igravious »

russellbeattie wrote: post #47
igravious wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that searching is difficult but I'll put the link here anyway: http://www.filemaker.com/products/ 1) I didn't know that Filemaker was still around. 2) I didn't know that it is an Apple subsidiary. 3) Pity there's no Linux version, I'd use LibreOffice Base if you're in Linux as someone else here has pointed out.

That's incredible - I remember FileMaker from the 1980s. Look at the functionality of that app and the great design of the site! If that were a startup run by a bunch of hip Millennials out of San Francisco, it'd be worth a couple billion dollars, easily. (Instead we get one-off, single purpose hosted apps like Trello, and FileMaker languishes in obscurity.)

It is incredible, isn't it? You have become more cynical with old age like myself – but I think there is some truth to what you're saying.
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