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Ford disguised a man as a car seat to research self-driving

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Re: Ford disguised a man as a car seat to research self-driving

#131

Post by dsfyu404ed »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #93
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does the opposite. An always lit in vehicle display and DRLs that are just always on headlights makes people forget to turn their lights on when it's dark. This isn't a problem for them since they have their headlights on but drivers behind them don't see them from a distance at night because their tail lights are not lit up. This is particularly dangerous in traffic where everyone else has their lights on. Making…

I just always turn my headlights on when I start my car. It doesn't matter if it's day or night, or it'll get dark while I'm driving, or if it starts raining or I go through a tunnel. The lights are just always on. If everyone's car just did this automatically, the world would be a safer place. Why would you ever want the lights off?

Headlights and DRLs are not the same.

Most OEMs just make the headlights (and the headlights only, not the tail lights) always on in markets where DRLs are mandatory. The latter is what you get when you do what Canada did and require DRLs and don't require them to also be poor at being headlights.

Pretty much any time when you want to signal the intention of not going anywhere is a darn good time to have your headlights off. Cars actually have parking lights for exactly this reason. They also work great for creeping around your own driveway without throwing too much light on the windows of houses in the very early AM.

Re: Ford disguised a man as a car seat to research self-driving

#132

Post by icc97 »

gambiting wrote: post #121
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just always turn my headlights on when I start my car. It doesn't matter if it's day or night, or it'll get dark while I'm driving, or if it starts raining or I go through a tunnel. The lights are just always on. If everyone's car just did this automatically, the world would be a safer place. Why would you ever want the lights off?

Well, ask in countries which actually have that as law - Poland introduced it few years ago and the jury is still out on whether it made roads safer or not. I'd argue it didn't - mostly because as a driver your brain starts to associate lights = moving car. Which means that you start to ignore everything that doesn't have lights - bicycles, cars where someone forgot to turn the lights on. There were studies done on t…

Given it's a safety feature the main reason not to do it would be if somehow it made things worse. Even if the effect is almost negligible you're still going to save a couple of lives per year.

Once LED lights are more standard and there's less issue of replacing bulbs or wasting electricity it seems a no brainer.

Re: Ford disguised a man as a car seat to research self-driving

#133

Post by dsfyu404ed »

maxerickson wrote: post #96
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm sort of intentionally being abrasive there though, as I think people drive too aggressively given the surroundings. This kind of passive aggressive behavior creates more problems than it solves.

I'm not dead yet.

Someone who's having a bad day is going to flip out on you for being an idiot and not paying attention (as they see it) when they have to stop short.

It'll probably happen eventually.

Looking like an oblivious idiot (which is indistinguishable from actually being one as far as other people care) who may dart out into the road at any second isn't going to make the world a better place. It will just increase the net frustration. Same goes for going the speed limit in the left lane. Roads are safer when people aren't angry.

Re: Ford disguised a man as a car seat to research self-driving

#134

Post by gambiting »

icc97 wrote: post #132
gambiting wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, ask in countries which actually have that as law - Poland introduced it few years ago and the jury is still out on whether it made roads safer or not. I'd argue it didn't - mostly because as a driver your brain starts to associate lights = moving car. Which means that you start to ignore everything that doesn't have lights - bicycles, cars where someone forgot to turn the lights on. There were studies done on t…

Given it's a safety feature the main reason not to do it would be if somehow it made things worse. Even if the effect is almost negligible you're still going to save a couple of lives per year. Once LED lights are more standard and there's less issue of replacing bulbs or wasting electricity it seems a no brainer.

Well, that's the whole separate point in this discussion - normal headlamp bulbs are 60W - so you are using 120W of power to run two of them. How many cars are on the road for a country the size of Poland at a busy time of the day? 100k cars? That's 12 megawatts of power being used every day just to run some lights - and that's not counting rear lights at all. Generating 12 megawatts of power using thousands of ICEs is a massive waste of fuel, and it's probably incredibly hard to prove that conclusively, but I wouldn't be surprised if burning that fuel caused more deaths overall than having the lights on saves. I don't know if we can find any studies that would say either way though. Automotive LEDs are still within 10-15W range each, so while better than halogens they are not free.

And finally, I think there was a Polish study that said that yeah, while with the lights on you are more likely to notice a car, you are less likely to notice a cyclist - and hitting the latter has much worse consequences than hitting the former. So it might have made things worse.

Re: Ford disguised a man as a car seat to research self-driving

#135

Post by icc97 »

jasonmaydie wrote: post #12
josefresco wrote: post #5

"they just needed people to believe wholeheartedly they were using one." Don't they mean "seeing one" instead of "using one"? Or am I missing something? "fill in gaps where we currently communicate via subtle gestures, eye contact and other less obvious mechanisms." This also struck me as odd - do pedestrians and other drivers really make "eye contact" with drivers to gauge their intention? I guess it's possible, but…

This was actually in the news about a mysterious van with a driver pretending to be self driving. https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/7/16109378/driverless-van-ar...

Watching the video it's almost impossible to tell what the flickering of the lights mean.

A much better idea seems the front brake lights mentioned by a couple of other commenters, plus a requirement for headlights if the car is on.

Re: Ford disguised a man as a car seat to research self-driving

#136

Post by maxerickson »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #133
maxerickson wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not dead yet.

Someone who's having a bad day is going to flip out on you for being an idiot and not paying attention (as they see it) when they have to stop short. It'll probably happen eventually. Looking like an oblivious idiot (which is indistinguishable from actually being one as far as other people care) who may dart out into the road at any second isn't going to make the world a better place. It will just increase the net fr…

"stop short"?

You are imagining much more aggressive behavior than I am actually engaging in. If it isn't clear that they have stopped, no way am I stepping in front of them.

Re: Ford disguised a man as a car seat to research self-driving

#137

Post by simondw »

gambiting wrote: post #120
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #8

It sounds goofy, but this strikes me as really clever. Compared to almost anything else with self driving cars adding a few indicators to outwardly show what it's going to do next (for pedestrians and other drivers) is a huge win. There is a fair amount of waving for someone else to go first at a turn, seeing if a driver is distracted (on their phone) at a stop, making eye contact while using a cross walk etc that ge…

I don't mean to be offensive, but can someone please explain to me how the Stop signs work in US? Am I correct to understand that whoever arrived at the stop sign first goes first, regardless of where they are going? Is this considered a good system? In EU you have strictly defined priority at stop signs - put simply, if you are going straight you have priority over someone turning, if you are turning, then the perso…

> I don't mean to be offensive

Reading this immediately makes me read the rest of your comment as much more negative and critical than I would otherwise. That's not necessary. If you want to ask a question about stop signs in the U.S., just ask it. (On the other hand, this is something you could google in about 5 seconds, so maybe your point really is just to criticize? Again, your opening line has thrown me off.)

Re: Ford disguised a man as a car seat to research self-driving

#138

Post by emj »

cpv wrote: post #114
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #8

It sounds goofy, but this strikes me as really clever. Compared to almost anything else with self driving cars adding a few indicators to outwardly show what it's going to do next (for pedestrians and other drivers) is a huge win. There is a fair amount of waving for someone else to go first at a turn, seeing if a driver is distracted (on their phone) at a stop, making eye contact while using a cross walk etc that ge…

I can't recall properly where I read it, but some time ago there was an idea to have stop signals also in front of the car, so the pedestrians would know if the driver/car is stopping. There are also pedestrians who can take into account if the car is turning (obviously by watching the turning lights). A self-driving car should have some reactions to people around it, so people could also respond properly to its acti…

That won't work you can never know if the driver sees you or other cars, this is actually a very common problem at intersections. Drivers look for cars and slow down, people walk/bicycle over thinking the driver has seen them. This is how people die at intersections.

Re: Ford disguised a man as a car seat to research self-driving

#139

Post by Chris2048 »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #122
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #8

It sounds goofy, but this strikes me as really clever. Compared to almost anything else with self driving cars adding a few indicators to outwardly show what it's going to do next (for pedestrians and other drivers) is a huge win. There is a fair amount of waving for someone else to go first at a turn, seeing if a driver is distracted (on their phone) at a stop, making eye contact while using a cross walk etc that ge…

"waving for someone else to go first at a turn" Ever since I heard of people getting blame for accidents, since they were effectively directing traffic (which only the police are allowed to do here), I've stopped waving people to go ahead and similar gestures, instead I'll give them space and wait for them to act of their own accord. I've also stopped acting on other people's waves and gestures, I check for myself th…

It's well known - a driver can only account for themselves, not you (or the environment).

As such, a driver that waves you on can only be trusted as saying "I will wait" but not "you are clear to go", you have to always verify this for yourself.

Re: Ford disguised a man as a car seat to research self-driving

#140

Post by Chris2048 »

simondw wrote: post #137
gambiting wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to be offensive, but can someone please explain to me how the Stop signs work in US? Am I correct to understand that whoever arrived at the stop sign first goes first, regardless of where they are going? Is this considered a good system? In EU you have strictly defined priority at stop signs - put simply, if you are going straight you have priority over someone turning, if you are turning, then the perso…

> I don't mean to be offensive Reading this immediately makes me read the rest of your comment as much more negative and critical than I would otherwise. That's not necessary. If you want to ask a question about stop signs in the U.S., just ask it. (On the other hand, this is something you could google in about 5 seconds, so maybe your point really is just to criticize? Again, your opening line has thrown me off.)

Much like those notices that bear the heading "polite notice". I'll be the judge of that.
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