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EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

reuters.com

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Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh? Think you need to get your facts straight: https://amp.independent.ie/business/irish/ireland-contribute...

Hm? "For the first time since it joined the bloc in 1973" "Since 1973, Ireland has received over €50bn."

Well if we're going down that road, that figure is dwarfed by the amount of debt the Irish State took on to bail out European banks...

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#92

I really hope a new tax bill comes through, I am tired of US companies (and others) that can simply avoid paying tax while small shops pay a lot of taxes in the EU. They use our well developed infrastructure for their own benefit and does not pay anything back. I hope they get a fat bill.

The underlying problem is that companies take advantage of "globalization". Companies can legally move not only their production abroad but also the profit. So companies naturally — with the blessing of American business inteligensia — avoid taxes. I think national control of the economy is eminent and is the only way forward if you want to realize and spread some of the tremendous opportunities and benefits that aut…

Fundamentally the "problem" lies in the fact that the nominal tax rate they can expect to pay in the United States is the highest among all the developed nations. Ireland is prudent and wise enough to be the better home for their revenues.

Globalization means that nations, provinces, and municipalities compete for the patronage of businesses. If you want a global economy, but you also want to be the legal home of Google and Microsoft, you will need to compete globally to offer better ROI: both in the cost of doing business, and in the proportion of the return which they get to keep. This is also why we keep piling on exceptions and deductions in order to stop the bleeding and keep at least some major firms from migrating all of their capital out of the country.

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#93

I really hope a new tax bill comes through, I am tired of US companies (and others) that can simply avoid paying tax while small shops pay a lot of taxes in the EU. They use our well developed infrastructure for their own benefit and does not pay anything back. I hope they get a fat bill.

meanwhile, common people pay even more than small shops - about 60% total income compared to around 20%

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#94
post #81
post #67

Taxing multinational corps is pretty difficult. Let's say a parent company UsTech, which makes money from ads on a ubiquitous digital platform, has an Irish subsidiary UsTechDublin,LLC and a German subsidiary UsTechBerlin,GMBH. UsTechBerlin hosts a bunch of very well paid engineers who work on app performance and backend infrastructure efficiency; UsTechDublin hosts a bunch of low paid customer service reps that prov…

Majority of revenue is coming from ads. If Google were taxed for each ad income based on the country of where the ad buyer is located, they couldn't manipulate it as easily. Also clients wouldn't be inclined to set up shop in tax havens, because why would they? It's not their problem. I'm not sure this is a good solution, it might also be possible to game it, but at least that would make sense from the perspective of…

Strictly speaking of ads - what happens when someone is using VPNs, let's say because the are contracted by an american company?

I like your idea, I'm just curious how this would work? Google might find themselves in violation of the law.

What do you think?

How about a yearly national tax proportional with the amount ad buyers pay for targeting a country - the argument here is that Google, Facebook, etc. are using a national infrastructure to do their business.

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#95
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Majority of revenue is coming from ads. If Google were taxed for each ad income based on the country of where the ad buyer is located, they couldn't manipulate it as easily. Also clients wouldn't be inclined to set up shop in tax havens, because why would they? It's not their problem. I'm not sure this is a good solution, it might also be possible to game it, but at least that would make sense from the perspective of…

What? In EU, Google is taxed for each ad income, as well as app sales, based on the country of where the sale takes place. It's called Value Added Tax. Countries can set the rate. Mostly the rates are in the order of 20 %.

I am not sure if it's still ongoing but any immaterial good you buy on a major website used to be taxed at the Luxembourg rate, which is the smallest in Europe. It's a pretty clear sign that sales are not attached to the country of the customer.

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? In EU, Google is taxed for each ad income, as well as app sales, based on the country of where the sale takes place. It's called Value Added Tax. Countries can set the rate. Mostly the rates are in the order of 20 %.

I am not sure if it's still ongoing but any immaterial good you buy on a major website used to be taxed at the Luxembourg rate, which is the smallest in Europe. It's a pretty clear sign that sales are not attached to the country of the customer.

That has changed. Companies are now required to charge the VAT rate of the customer's country for digital goods (and have to store some data to prove that they picked the correct country).

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#97
post #38

"This resulted in estimated revenue losses for EU states, other than Ireland, of between 51 and 54 billion euros between 2013 and 2015, the report concluded." So if i understand this right, this is basically: the EU didn't really lose anything, since ireland is in the EU, but the other states would have gotten more in total if they weren't allowed to do this? My other understanding is that the tax laws of all the EU…

There is a movement calling for tax harmonization in EU. I think this is a "what-if" scenario. "What if there were no internal competition between EU state to make a race to the bottom in terms of tax on profits?"

well if you dug deep enough you would find it driven by the countries within the EU that have the stronger and more stable economies. In effect they will keep the poorer countries poor because they will be unable to provide tax incentives to gain new businesses.

a classic move branded under some guilt assuming title to prey on people's ignorance to support it.

while there may need to be limits on how sweet of deals that can be made the idea that you can "harmonize" taxes across such a diverse number of countries is unrealistic. Those large countries using this idea to protect their tax base aren't going to also turn around and bring up the poorer countries

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#98
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Majority of revenue is coming from ads. If Google were taxed for each ad income based on the country of where the ad buyer is located, they couldn't manipulate it as easily. Also clients wouldn't be inclined to set up shop in tax havens, because why would they? It's not their problem. I'm not sure this is a good solution, it might also be possible to game it, but at least that would make sense from the perspective of…

What? In EU, Google is taxed for each ad income, as well as app sales, based on the country of where the sale takes place. It's called Value Added Tax. Countries can set the rate. Mostly the rates are in the order of 20 %.

Google's customers are almost all VAT collecting companies. That means that not Google but their customer is responsible for paying the tax. It can be deducted from their tax burden they have because they sell to end-consumers.

The point of this discussion is not the tax on the sale itself (which is indeed already there) but on the profit at Google that results of this sale.

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#99
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Majority of revenue is coming from ads. If Google were taxed for each ad income based on the country of where the ad buyer is located, they couldn't manipulate it as easily. Also clients wouldn't be inclined to set up shop in tax havens, because why would they? It's not their problem. I'm not sure this is a good solution, it might also be possible to game it, but at least that would make sense from the perspective of…

What? In EU, Google is taxed for each ad income, as well as app sales, based on the country of where the sale takes place. It's called Value Added Tax. Countries can set the rate. Mostly the rates are in the order of 20 %.

[deleted]

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#100
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm? "For the first time since it joined the bloc in 1973" "Since 1973, Ireland has received over €50bn."

Well if we're going down that road, that figure is dwarfed by the amount of debt the Irish State took on to bail out European banks...

Wasn't it more like the Irish State was "forced" to bail out some truly awful Irish Banks who were lending money they had borrowed from European banks?
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