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What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

fivethirtyeight.com

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Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#181

Post by rantanplan »

tudorw wrote: post #179
taylorswift_ wrote: post #121

I read this, as a recovering addict that went through my own hell mostly from alcoholism, and wondered where the "science" part was? For instance this sentence "More than 13 percent of its participants died after treatment,1 mainly of overdoses that could potentially have been prevented with evidence-based care." The argument is that they "could" have been prevented but how do they really know that? How many people i…

I have a couple of friends on methadone, they are cordial, relatively together and in a totally safer place than prior. I would rather that than the other so it's legitimate approach in my eyes, they have the rest of their lives to figure out when they can stop. "Detoxifications and drug free modalities, although appealing to an understandable desire for recovery without medications, produces only 5-10% success rate.…

> they have the rest of their lives to figure out when they can stop.

The answer is: never.

Only if they get into a program that guarantees they will be detoxified in 6 months(or so). This is rare unfortunately because it needs the addict's consent, which is rarely given. They usually choose the "open-ended" program because it's easier.

They only use methadone because it's a legal(but controlled) drug. It's not that much better than heroin.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#182

Post by bsder »

taylorswift_ wrote: post #147
bsder wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol != opioid. As I said in another comment, alcohol is an odd drug. It's mechanisms work very differently from opioids and needs very different behaviors and strategies to combat.

In my opinion you can't simply discard the debate as comparing apples to oranges... There are many similarities. It's a drug addiction at the end of the day.

So, we should give alcoholics naloxone?

Okay, so now we've established that alcohol and opiates do different things in the brain.

So, at this point, I'm going to ask you: "Why should you assume similarity rather than assuming difference?"

Just because viruses and bacteria are both harmful does not mean we should use antibiotics for both.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#183

Post by [deleted] »

gozur88 wrote: post #24
kchoudhu wrote: post #2

Now that the opioid crisis is a problem for white people, science makes an appearance in the policy discussion. Contrast to the crack epidemic in the 80s: fuck'em, throw them all in prison. Edit to add: I wish the best of luck to those who have been caught up in this crisis: I'm rooting for you, and I hope every last one of you find the treatment you need. For those of us who aren't affected, it's time for some deep…

>Contrast to the crack cocaine epidemic in the 80s: fuck'em, throw them all in prison. That's overly reductive to the point of being wrong. There was never a particularly strong feeling that crack addicts should be thrown in prison any more than other types of addicts. People were strongly in favor of throwing crack dealers in prison because they were turning neighborhoods into war zones as they fought for lucrative…

[deleted]

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#184

Post by tudorw »

rantanplan wrote: post #181
tudorw wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a couple of friends on methadone, they are cordial, relatively together and in a totally safer place than prior. I would rather that than the other so it's legitimate approach in my eyes, they have the rest of their lives to figure out when they can stop. "Detoxifications and drug free modalities, although appealing to an understandable desire for recovery without medications, produces only 5-10% success rate.…

> they have the rest of their lives to figure out when they can stop. The answer is: never. Only if they get into a program that guarantees they will be detoxified in 6 months(or so). This is rare unfortunately because it needs the addict's consent, which is rarely given. They usually choose the "open-ended" program because it's easier. They only use methadone because it's a legal(but controlled) drug. It's not that…

never and alive is just fine, methadone satiates the addiction though does not really deliver a 'high' anymore so these friends can fill their lives with more interesting things, at some point methadone might get de-prioritised, in the meantime, I support them with love and encouragement, they recognised they were in a situation and took intelligent pro-active steps to move their lives forward, I'm not them, I'm not inside their mind, I don't know how hard it is for them, I'm not here to judge.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#185

Post by tomohawk »

tudorw wrote: post #179
taylorswift_ wrote: post #121

I read this, as a recovering addict that went through my own hell mostly from alcoholism, and wondered where the "science" part was? For instance this sentence "More than 13 percent of its participants died after treatment,1 mainly of overdoses that could potentially have been prevented with evidence-based care." The argument is that they "could" have been prevented but how do they really know that? How many people i…

I have a couple of friends on methadone, they are cordial, relatively together and in a totally safer place than prior. I would rather that than the other so it's legitimate approach in my eyes, they have the rest of their lives to figure out when they can stop. "Detoxifications and drug free modalities, although appealing to an understandable desire for recovery without medications, produces only 5-10% success rate.…

We now have a methadone clinic in our local shopping center, right next to a large childcare facility. Since then, crime has gone way up. The grocery store now has armed guards.

This is not what a solution should look like.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#186

Post by rantanplan »

tudorw wrote: post #184
rantanplan wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they have the rest of their lives to figure out when they can stop. The answer is: never. Only if they get into a program that guarantees they will be detoxified in 6 months(or so). This is rare unfortunately because it needs the addict's consent, which is rarely given. They usually choose the "open-ended" program because it's easier. They only use methadone because it's a legal(but controlled) drug. It's not that…

never and alive is just fine, methadone satiates the addiction though does not really deliver a 'high' anymore so these friends can fill their lives with more interesting things, at some point methadone might get de-prioritised, in the meantime, I support them with love and encouragement, they recognised they were in a situation and took intelligent pro-active steps to move their lives forward, I'm not them, I'm not…

No one is judging no one. And you should keep supporting them any way you can.

But I am just stating facts.

> at some point methadone might get de-prioritised

But that is wishful thinking, not reality. Open-ended programs do not work. Period.

By far most people in such programs relapse multiple times. You can't expect from the addict to kick the drug off out of sheer will and good intentions.

> took intelligent pro-active steps to move their lives forward

You don't understand addiction and how it works. It has nothing to with intelligence or logic. When someone chooses an open-ended program is because the people around them force them to take some action and they choose the easiest one.

Again, no one is judging and no one said those people do not need love, quite the opposite. But open-ended programs destroy their lives.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#187

Post by KGIII »

anythingnonidin wrote: post #165
AndrewOMartin wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen a couple of documentaries where KKK members were interviewed and the sense of purpose and community seemed to be the main thing they were all getting out of it. I'm not saying the KKK is a good community group, but I will say there are a lot of people with less community than they offer.

Extremely interesting. Don't suppose you have a link?

Even better, visit voat.co and read for a few weeks. The white nationalists are all about family, community, and a collective. Well, a specifically white collective. It's very important to them and a frequent topic.

Of course, this means reading their posts which is not for the faint of heart. It's like most of them are missing something and are trying to find something to belong to. In a way, I feel more sorrow than anger towards them.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#188

Post by KGIII »

tree_of_item wrote: post #129
otakucode wrote: post #27

Great article, but if your loved one has an opioid addiction and wants to quit without suffering the devastating withdrawal, I would strongly recommend investigating kratom. It is a non-opiate tree which grows primarily in Thailand and similar regions. It contains an alkaloid called mitragynine. This alkaloid is a selective opioid receptor agonist. Specifically, research shows that it is an agonist to several opioid…

Please note that kratom extracts are also extremely addictive and you can end up in largely the same situation as an opiate addict (minus the needles) if you go too far.

Many, probably most, opiate addicts don't use needles. Oral and intranasal are the two most common routes.

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#189

Post by gedy »

otakucode wrote: post #42
anythingnonidin wrote: post #18

OP here. An interesting takeaway I had was the importance of community. Does anyone know any non-profits or startups working to increase people's sense of community at a mass scale? It seems this is missing from large parts of the western world and has many consequences.

It reminds me of things Mother Teresa (who was at times a horrendous person, her Nobel acceptance speech is pretty disturbing and cruel) said about American/western society. She remarked that although a person in India might be radically more poor, even if they were starving in the street, they knew people would reach out to them and cared for them. In America, no matter how rich you are, you feel far more alone than…

> (who was at times a horrendous person, her Nobel acceptance speech is pretty disturbing and cruel)

Wait what? Because she brought up abortion? https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1979...

Re: What Science Says to Do If Your Loved One Has an Opioid Addiction

#190

Post by pjc50 »

anythingnonidin wrote: post #18

OP here. An interesting takeaway I had was the importance of community. Does anyone know any non-profits or startups working to increase people's sense of community at a mass scale? It seems this is missing from large parts of the western world and has many consequences.

> non-profits or startups working to increase people's sense of community

This is non-profit territory, absolutely not startup territory. You can only build a classic VC-funded startup by promising that eventually you're going to extract value (usually monopoly profits!) from the community.

"Sense of community" is one of those things that's traditionally ranked well below profits and been destroyed in the search for profit.

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