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EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

reuters.com

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Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#41

Post by dangsmum »

latch wrote: post #13
DVassallo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just stating how much taxes are being "avoided" is an imperfect perspective. If, say, it turned out they contributed $100B to the economy, then that $5B wouldn't look that big in that context.

I get what you're saying, but I think it's fundamentally wrong for two reasons. First, it is "big" when you consider how that money could be used. Cynicism aside about funding wars and filling walls with cash, it could be used for substantive (read: big) social good Secondly, this is an important market. If they don't want to pay taxes, they have the legal option to not do business in Europe. So while you say "5B is…

"they have a legal option not todo do business in europe"

Do you see any way to do that other than to prevent eu businesses buying ads from google?

Because i think that might have a few severe unintented consequences for businesses in the eu, and have exactly zero impact on google.

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#42

Post by seszett »

DannyBee wrote: post #32
seszett wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do they "exist" in the EU? They both have headquarters in Dublin.

Which i'm sure they would happily burn to the ground if it meant they weren't taxed there. I don't think you want to go with the argument of physical presence. It rarely works well with any multinational.

Well in the meantime these offices do exist, and they also employ people in quite a few EU countries[1].

So that's the reality they have to live with.

[1] https://www.facebook.com/careers/locations/

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#44

Post by la_oveja »

DVassallo wrote: post #20
Oletros wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much revenue and profit would have lost Google and Facebook if they didn't exist in the EU

How do they "exist" in the EU? One way to see it is that people from the EU are simply buying services from a US company. It's as if they caught a plane, and paid at a cash register in California. But instead of making the trip, they just sent a check.

If you're selling something in the EU, you gotta stick to EU laws. It's not about where is the company from, it's about where it's making business. Simple as that.

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#45

Post by Heliosmaster »

DannyBee wrote: post #31

"This resulted in estimated revenue losses for EU states, other than Ireland, of between 51 and 54 billion euros between 2013 and 2015, the report concluded." So if i understand this right, this is basically: the EU didn't really lose anything, since ireland is in the EU, but the other states would have gotten more in total if they weren't allowed to do this? My other understanding is that the tax laws of all the EU…

If you were talking about state taxes only, yes. There's no equivalent of federal taxes in EU.

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#46

Post by gaius »

s_dev wrote: post #10
gaius wrote: post #6

This resulted in estimated revenue losses for EU states, other than Ireland, of between 51 and 54 billion euros between 2013 and 2015 Typo in the headline? Seems to be off by a factor of 10.

The rate approximates 10% so maybe thats the taxable amount vs the payed taxed amount in headline.

No, both the headline and the text refer to tax revenue.

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#47

Post by Heliosmaster »

seanieb wrote: post #28

"This resulted in estimated revenue losses for EU states, other than Ireland" What does this mean? Ireland is in the EU. It's like complaining France or Germany don't share their tax revenue proportionally with the rest of the EU states. Ireland and other EU states have sovereignty over their own tax laws. If you change that you will basically change what the EU is.

Which is what the point of the article is about. What if the EU was more harmonized, especially at a fiscal level?

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#49

Post by Oletros »

DannyBee wrote: post #35
Oletros wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much revenue and profit would have lost Google and Facebook if they didn't exist in the EU

This is pretty dangerous thinking. The EU only has half a billion people. Thus, the truth is: Over time, these companies will make infinitely more from developing nations outside of the EU than they would from the EU. especially if the EU is taxing them heavily. Additionally, even if you say "don't care, if they leave we'll just build our own companies", now you are hamstringing the global growth of those companies.…

> This is pretty dangerous thinking.

Dangerous thinking? It was just an answer to a claim about the wealth they create as if they are exempt to be taxed because they create wealth.

> Over time, these companies will make infinitely more from developing nations outside of the EU than they would from the EU.

Over time, but I bet that any of those companies wouldn't trade the profit of one of the greatest markets in the world now for an hypothetical

> especially if the EU is taxing them heavily.

EU is not taxing heavily

Re: EU lost up to €5.4B in tax revenues from Google, Facebook: report

#50

Post by lucideer »

DannyBee wrote: post #31

"This resulted in estimated revenue losses for EU states, other than Ireland, of between 51 and 54 billion euros between 2013 and 2015, the report concluded." So if i understand this right, this is basically: the EU didn't really lose anything, since ireland is in the EU, but the other states would have gotten more in total if they weren't allowed to do this? My other understanding is that the tax laws of all the EU…

> My other understanding is that the tax laws of all the EU countries are not controlled by the EU, but by the individual countries?

This is partially but not 100% correct. Tax laws are controlled or "administered" by individual countries but overseen by EU directives. This means that while individual countries apply the law, their application must comply with EU guidelines. The Irish government has been found guilty in EU court of violating EU law in a tax deal they made with Apple, and this is following on examining tax deals Ireland (or other states, I'm not quite clear on that point myself?) has(/have) made with other large multinationals, and what they would/could be found similarly guilty of were it brought before an EU court.

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