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DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

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Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#91

Post by csydas »

AngeloAnolin wrote: post #27

Quote: "The BOD calls on departments and agencies to identify any use or presence of Kaspersky products on their information systems in the next 30 days, to develop detailed plans to remove and discontinue present and future use of the products in the next 60 days, and at 90 days from the date of this directive" That number of days could be critical. If they have intel telling them that Kaspersky can be used as a vec…

It could just be an excuse to award a contract to a variety of local security firms to perform a "Post-Kaspersky Security Audit" at great expense in the interest of National Security, but that's just baseless cynical speculation.

It's a weird move, and I would like to imagine that there is some solid reasoning behind the endeavor besides posturing and playing up to hot-button issues. But it really does just seem like the sort of issue that either ends up in bureaucratic limbo (e.g., Kaspersky remains installed for months while agencies look to find a replacement that meets their criteria) or that leaves the computers unprotected while the search continues.

Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#92

Post by wil421 »

wildmusings wrote: post #15
FatAmericanDev wrote: post #2

The fact that they allowed it in the first place is mind boggling, the people that run Kaspersky love Russia.

Tech sovereignty is going to be one of the most important international issues of the next few decades. The US has mostly lucked out so far, being the home of the overwhelming majority of major tech firms. But China has very purposefully taken steps to secure and guarantee their technological sovereignty, and there is movement in Europe to do the same.

China is blatantly ripping off the West in tech and non tech. Their rising middle class and population make it simple to copy and internally consume. Russia can do something similar because purposely segregate themselves.

Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#93

Post by BoiledCabbage »

ams6110 wrote: post #90
BoiledCabbage wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a very interesting timeline you've laid out. The piece I don't follow is the conclusion. > Take all of that, and ask yourself this. Would the US govt, which already had suspicion to remove them, and had been getting the ball rolling since at least May or before then, ask them to spy on behalf of the US in Russia, and if they balk, remove their funding and damage their reputation? To me that's real reason…

> I can't think of any circumstance where US intelligence would both simultaneously believe they are a branch of the Russian govt and ask them to spy in Russia on their behalf. Turning a spy is espionage 101, chapter 1.

Yes, but you don't then punish the entire company for not complying.

Turning a spy would be a covert action. Saying "your company better spy for us, or else we'll pull our contracts" is absolutely not. The previous poster was arguing the latter was what is going on.

Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#96

Post by peterwwillis »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #69
peterwwillis wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we don't speculate at all, we're left with the following bullet points from news articles this year: - Michael Flynn was paid by Kaspersky to speak at its seminar (probably nothing, but mildly interesting) - US Intel community considers Kaspersky to be an arm of the Russian government - Kaspersky employee arrested in sting by Russian government for treason - US Intel officials believe Kaspersky employees in US eng…

I think it's a very interesting timeline you've laid out. The piece I don't follow is the conclusion. > Take all of that, and ask yourself this. Would the US govt, which already had suspicion to remove them, and had been getting the ball rolling since at least May or before then, ask them to spy on behalf of the US in Russia, and if they balk, remove their funding and damage their reputation? To me that's real reason…

> Clearly something changed to cause the sudden urgency to eliminate Kaspersky from govt computers

This isn't sudden, this has been in the works for at least half the year. Congress and the FBI have been investigating Kaspersky since at least May, probably before then. In June, the House and Senate approved legislation to ban Kaspersky's software from use by the military. Legislation introduced by, you guessed it: John McCain.

It might not be about spying at all - they might just be wagging the dog. It's weird enough that the military and intelligence services are working in tandem (how often do you see that happen?) to cast doubt on and kick out Kaspersky. With Trump under scrutiny about potential collusion with the Russians, could it be that someone needs to look tough against a Russian entity and provide in return some favor, like 100 billion extra bucks in the DOD budget?

The newly passed FY18 military budget is 696 billion, up from 582 billion in 2017 - an almost 20% increase. What really amazes me is 60% of Democrats voted for this, which is an incredible concession considering how gigantic the cuts to their programs will be.

Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#97

Post by peterwwillis »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #93
ams6110 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't think of any circumstance where US intelligence would both simultaneously believe they are a branch of the Russian govt and ask them to spy in Russia on their behalf. Turning a spy is espionage 101, chapter 1.

Yes, but you don't then punish the entire company for not complying. Turning a spy would be a covert action. Saying "your company better spy for us, or else we'll pull our contracts" is absolutely not. The previous poster was arguing the latter was what is going on.

If your company hires someone who openly flaunts a lifestyle which is "morally repugnant" to some ranking member of a committee which oversees a government budget, and the company realizes this, they have a decision to make. If the company keeps the employee, the contract could be pulled, and they lose millions. If they simply lose the employee, the company stays in business.

This is never an official policy, but it is a de-facto one, in the intelligence community anyway. Companies sometimes self-police to prevent these situations. But they will absolutely act to protect their interests, in one way or another.

Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#98

Post by banku_brougham »

barrkel wrote: post #57
tptacek wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That begs the question, which is "why is the level of confrontation increasing now, as opposed to 4 years ago?"

Because Russia is a domestic political issue in the US - it's been anointed as the McGuffin in the battle between the two main parties over the presidency.

The 'anoint' 'McGuffin' combo metaphor doesn't work, and the clash undermines your point.

Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#99

Post by ajross »

peterwwillis wrote: post #41
tptacek wrote: post #17

This is very bad for Kaspersky. Put aside how much revenue the entire GSA market represents for a security company (it'll be a double-digit percentage for a typical company). The bigger problem is that in the wake of this, every systemically important financial firm will also eject Kaspersky. In addition to being another significant chunk of revenue, major financial firms set the buying direction for IT security for…

If we don't speculate at all, we're left with the following bullet points from news articles this year: - Michael Flynn was paid by Kaspersky to speak at its seminar (probably nothing, but mildly interesting) - US Intel community considers Kaspersky to be an arm of the Russian government - Kaspersky employee arrested in sting by Russian government for treason - US Intel officials believe Kaspersky employees in US eng…

> Would the US govt [...] ask [Kaspersky] to spy on behalf of the US in Russia

Why would they? Wouldn't they just ask Microsoft instead? I don't see what particular value or access Kaspersky would bring to the table here. They have no particular "spy" channels into the Russian government, they just make software.

Re: DHS Issues BOD Banning Kaspersky from Federal Government

#100

Post by syshum »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #9

None of the following is confirmed, but I keep seeing articles online hinting around this, or implying this. Essentially it sounds like is known in classified circles that Kaspersky works closely with and supports Russian Intelligence (FSB). It seems while the US knew about this it had a spy within Kaspersky and was their source for finding out what they were up to. The accused spy was arrested by the FSB recently so…

>> Essentially it sounds like is known in classified circles that Kaspersky works closely with and supports Russian Intelligence (FSB).

I have never understood why this is a shocking revelation.

FSB is russia version of CIA/NSA. Every single US technology company works with the CIA/NSA as they are required to by law, every company in any other nation is going to work with their government as required by law

If you are in the UK you will be working with GCHQ/MI5, if you are in the US it will be NSA/CIA, if you are in Russia it will be FSB, etc

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