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Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

economist.com

171–180 of 222 posts

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#171
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I'll have to re-read the linked article. In any case, while I probably did not phrase it in the language that globalists themselves would use, but would they flat out refute my definition? Or would they merely nuance it?

Yes, yours is the Breitbart definition. Just google 'globalist', look at the wikipedia page, etc. If I defined 'libertarians' as, say, 'people who won't answer the question "How often do you beat your spouse?" with a simple yes or no', it would be just inaccurate and loaded, not something libertarians would want to 'nuance'.

First of all, Breitbart may use a definition like the one I provided, but I think so would the rather more mild-mannered Front Porch Republic[0], which should be noted has contributing members that identify more with the communitarian left than anything right-wing.

As for your suggestion to "just google" it, I decided to take you up on it. The first result I got was a definition from Wordnik:

"A national geopolitical policy in which the entire world is regarded as the appropriate sphere for a state's influence."

That seems to match up quite well with the first clause of my definition. Does Steve Bannon own Wordnik or the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language? I doubt it. Wikipedia doesn't really go into detail about specific ideological commitments.

How about the second clause? Well, certainly the phrase "backwards and unenlightened" implies that I perceive globalists as haughty and vain. What of it? I don't think they're evil incarnate. I've met a fair few. They seem decent enough.

Nonetheless, I think that if you believe that national boundaries should go away, and you come from a relatively high educational background (which many globalists seem to) then, in a dispassionate way, "unenlightened" is exactly how you are going to view those who insist on maintain local hegemony based on traditional institutions.

> If I defined 'libertarians' as, say, 'people who won't answer the question "How often do you beat your spouse?" with a simple yes or no'

It wouldn't be a terribly bad start. By not identifying with either Conservative or Liberal your making it clear that you reject binary politics and false dichotomies.

[0]http://www.frontporchrepublic.com/

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#172
post #168

Author of the study they wrote about here. I think the NYT write up is better: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/technology/silicon-valley... . Study here: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/working-papers... .

the nyt open with: "Silicon Valley has long preferred to remain aloof from national politics, but the Trump era has altered that stance." which is kinda of hard to defend since Obama constantly blocked the bay area on reelection campaigns and most of his advisors came from/went to silicon Valley companies.

I'm kind of wondering what happened between c. 1999 and now. The WTO meetings in Seattle were protested vigorously by "anarchist anti-globalists" who sought to protect American workers from the competition of outsourcing and cheap goods from overseas (China was going to enter WTO) So much so the next meetings were in Doha.

But now, these same class of people are quite a bit more pro globalization and might be considered globalists. They somewhat ironically seem to embrace some big aspects of neoliberal economics which is something they were quite antithetical to back in the early 2000's --so what gives?

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#173
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How to explain the behavior of people like Nick Hanauer, who advocates higher taxes on the wealthy?[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Hanauer

There will always be some outliers when speaking of human affairs. I mentioned mainstream movies above and it's similar: the majority loves them and flocks to them. But still some would legitimately rather watch a Tarkovsky or some really obscure creators. To quote myself above: "Humans want to believe that they are not so simple, but _usually_ they are" (emphasis mine). In other words, you can find one Hanauer. Heck…

Gates and Buffet want to raise the capital gain taxes, democrat multimillionaires like B. Sanders and E. Warren are in favor of taxes. That's only for the most famous. There are a lot of rich people, less famous, concerned about inequality and favoring something not in their personal interest.

So on one hand I disagree with your "hard to find 100 Hanauer" point, but it does not mean your bigger point is wrong, just that it may not come simply from their job, but maybe education/social environment.

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#174
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. You're committing the fallacy that comes from Marxist thought--- that one's position/class/socio-economic-factors are the determining factors in their values and beliefs. People are not so simple, their thoughts can come from elsewhere. You're wildly underestimating the sentience of these people. I think a better model is that: People who understand economics tend to both be entrepreneurs (they understand t…

This doesn't have anything to do with Marxism. The notion that people might have ulterior motives is as old as the hills. The actual Karl Marx, on the other hand, didn't think that people's beliefs were determined by their social class. Rather that their behavior was ultimately determined by their social class regardless of any personal beliefs. It's true that free trade in principle doesn't benefit large companies.…

>it doesn't hurt them either.

Sorta true, but if you are in an industry with a low entry cost (hypothetical example) dairy farming, and you have a large herd and facilities. Another smaller dairy farmer comes into the market. You see that they are taking some of your business. So you call your friend Mr. Mayor and voice your concerns about how $expensive_compliance_regualtiob is necessary to "protect consumers" and a law gets passed. Your competitors cannot to afford the afore mentioned new process and are as such drive. Out of business.

So, are big companies hurt by free trade? No, it's how most get started. But once in power, they will lobby to make sure they maintain it

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#175
post #33

Anyone else here familiar with "liberaltarianism"? I think that might be what the data is showing: the desire for a robust and efficient free market tethered to a redistributive social safety net. I think it's a pretty good idea.

> a robust and efficient free market tethered to a redistributive social safety net.

The latter would destroy or corrupt the former. It's a horrible idea.

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>After all, some of the most progressive policies for the poor in this country were passed by the wealthiest presidents (FDR, Kennedy, Johnson). You mean regressive policies that hurt the poor, right? The War on Poverty marked the end of the decline in the American poverty rate. The social welfare state gradually sapped American industrial vitality and the labour productivity growth that had been fueling wage gains…

Ummm, no. The poverty rate continued to decline until the mid-70s. There was in fact a rapid decline with the beginning of the War on Poverty. https://poverty.ucdavis.edu/faq/what-current-poverty-rate-un...

Per capita social spending was vastly greater in the 1980s than the 1970s and it was vastly greater in 1990s than the 1980s:

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/01/16/us/politics/16fiv...

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/01/16/us/politics/16fiv...

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#177
post #63

"would like to live in a society where government does nothing except provide national defence and police protection, so that people could be left alone to earn whatever they could," -- obviously encapsulates the libertarian philosophy.

It's one of those things that sounds so simple and great on paper but has a huge impedance mismatch with reality.

How do we know? It's never existed in reality.

(Of course, I'll admit, neither has "true" Communism ... or so its supporters claim.)

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>After all, some of the most progressive policies for the poor in this country were passed by the wealthiest presidents (FDR, Kennedy, Johnson). You mean regressive policies that hurt the poor, right? The War on Poverty marked the end of the decline in the American poverty rate. The social welfare state gradually sapped American industrial vitality and the labour productivity growth that had been fueling wage gains…

But labor productivity growth doesn't cause any wage gains anymore, hasn't for decades upon decades. Probably worth asking if you assert that American corporate taxes are the highest in the world: sometimes there are just major, major reality-based differences in the discourse and it's useless talking any further. I know I can't believe some of your axioms here, unfortunately.

It's tracked labour productivity growth very closely:

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/22_wage...

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ummm, no. The poverty rate continued to decline until the mid-70s. There was in fact a rapid decline with the beginning of the War on Poverty. https://poverty.ucdavis.edu/faq/what-current-poverty-rate-un...

Per capita social spending was vastly greater in the 1980s than the 1970s and it was vastly greater in 1990s than the 1980s: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/01/16/us/politics/16fiv... https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/01/16/us/politics/16fiv...

I'm not sure what that has to do with the poverty rate continuing to decline until the mid-70s and then staying down.

You said something about the regressive policies that hurt the poor. You haven't shown any evidence for this claim.

Re: Tech bosses are globalists, not libertarians

#180
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what you mean by that, because I've never heard anyone seriously argue against that assertion. Our top marginal corporate tax rate is one of the highest, according to Wikipedia [1], though companies are generally pretty good at not being too profitable and therefore not paying a very high tax rate, if that's what you mean. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_tax_in_the_United_St... Excerpt: In 201…

You do understand the difference between marginal and baseline tax rates? That word 'marginal' did not slip by me, I'm afraid.

Yes, I do, and no, it wasn't meant to "slip by you", which is why I asked if you meant that companies were good at not being profitable, and thus never made it to the top rate.
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